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Army service uniform - COL Harold “Pat” Marty


Fratlanta
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Went to an estate sale this week end that had 2 jackets from a retired US army colonel for sale. These uniforms were nice, with all the bells and whistles you can ask for. The only problem is that the one I got was missing its ribbon rack (I guess he would just switch the rack from one uniform to the other) .

I have a picture of this other jacket though so my question is, should I leave it this way or should I try to find a rack and complete the uniform.

 

I do not want to be accused of forgery or anything and that's why I am asking here, what the right thing to do would be.

If you guys think I should do it I'll post pictures of both jackets and the BDUs and ACUs I got from the same estate.

 

Thanks for your advice

 

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Reconstructing a jacket with period correct items is not an issue. If you will be selling the jacket all you need to do is state the ribbon bar is correct, but not original to the jacket.

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If you do go through the expense of rebuilding that rather extensive ribbon rack, along adding anything else that is missing including the Canadian jump wing and US Pathfinder wing, put a dated note in one of the pockets explaining what was added and what was original.

 

As time goes on it gets hard to remember what you did.

 

This is an interesting uniform. It looks like a career officer who was most likely in one of the Combat Arms (Infantry, Artillery, Armor) and then branch transferred eventually to Ordnance. Most likely he was Infantry with that Pathfinder qualification. This was not unusual as officers moved up in the ranks, to develop a secondary specialty in one of the Combat Service Support arms. It made them eligible for command within those services, which gave them more opportunity than competing for command in a Combat Arms slot. Of course, it made it more difficult for someone who started out in CSS to compete for those positions. Somehow a Combat Arms officer who took on a support position was considered better qualified because they had been in one of the front line units.

 

Most Army Green uniforms are not worth much, but that one would have been a keeper. Hopefully the BDUs and ACUs

will make up for that missed oppotunity.

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VolunteerArmoury

My first comment is that that is most likely not an ASU but a Dress Blue. ASUs are what replaced the Dress Blues. ASUs were adopted in 2008. Also in 2008 Ordnance officers, with exception of EOD officers, were transitioned into the Logistics Branch upon completion of Logistics Captains Career Course. Transportation & Quartermaster Officers were included in that. Given that I would confidently say he got out before 2008. But the ASUs were very similar to Dress Blues. Ive been told there were some differences in cuts. Many of us converted Dress Blues to ASUs for there werent many differences. Therere more differences for enlisted to change out because of the completely different service stripes & lack of leg stripes for Specialist & below. The primary visual difference would be an addition of overseas stripes which I dont even see on the Class As & CSIB. He may simply not have had six months overseas which would be unusual with all of those campaign stars but if possible though not many at all would get those stars but not have six months overseas. The only ones I knew like that were people from high up that had brief TDYs in theatre but that should still have added up to six min quickly so I suspect he just didnt put them on.

 

My next comment is that I do not feel he was Infantry. He would most likely have an EIB for having being that high speed. He couldve been branch detailed which means upon commissioning a new 2LT would go to a Combat Arms OBC then to a Support Captains course. This was advantageous since Combat Arms have a pyramid progression whereas Service Support & Combat Service Support or whatever the terms were changed to had inverted pyramid progression. Now he couldve been a Combat Arms branch detailed to Armor or Artillery etc & gotten the hooah badges then changed to Ordnance or such & thus never been a grunt. I was an Infantryman who spent time in a few logistics units & saw some who never where Combat Arms but were in units that provided ample opportunities to go to the hooah schools. Thats especially for those who were in support units to Special Forces etc. I personally know a guy who was always Finance Corps but had Scuba, Pathfinder, Master Parachutists Wings, Air Assault,& many foreign jump wings. Just happens he was also the only Finance Corps Brigadier General Ive ever met. Without him explaining his career or not having his records we wont know. I guarantee people on here would claim my dress uniforms were put togethers & would never believe otherwise.

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VolunteerArmory ... everything you said was valid. No dispute.

 

However, looking at the dress blues, there appears to be a ranger tab above the pocket. This makes it even more likely the officer was either infantry, or as you noted, detailed to infantry at one point.

 

This individual has a lot of ribbons, with a lot of devices. Very few officers with purely logistics backgrounds left the service with a rack like that.

 

If we see the pictures of the fatigues we might get a better fix on the last name. Then our research wizards can go to work and see if they can pull up an identity on this officer.

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from his obituary:

 

He served numerous overseas tours with wartime tours in Desert Storm, Iraq Freedom, and US Forces-Afghanistan. He retired as Colonel from the United States Army on November 1, 2009 with 30 years service.

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I'll get you started, the first one is the Bronze Star, the last is the Kuwait Liberation Medal.

 

Thanks ;)

I Think I can figure them out, I just wanted confirmation about the ones hidden behind the lapel. also, not really sure about all the "devices" attached to some of these ribbons.

 

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Bronze star / Defense mritorious / Meritorious service

???? / army commendation / ????? / ??????

????? / National defense / ????? / ???????

????? / Global war ter exp / global war ter ser / army service

army overseas / ????? / KLM saudi / KLM kuweit

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VolunteerArmoury

Here ya go. Im doing it from memory which Im fully confident on the decorations but may have the name not fully correct. Some I couldnt tell if theres three or four leafs on since its blurry to my eyes when I got close.

 

Bronze Star with oak leaf cluster

Defense Meritorious Service Medal

Meritorious Service Medal with looks like four oak leafs

Joint Service Commendation Medal

Army Commendations with oak leaf

Joint Service Achievement Medal with oak leaf

Army Achievement with one maybe two oak leafs

Army Reserve Components Medal (doesnt necessarily mean he was in the Reserves but couldve had National Guard time. It was awarded for both but he wasnt a careers Reserve Components guy since he most likely wouldve had a Armed Forces Reserve Medal with a Hour Glass Device & probably at least one M device for a mobilization if he were in the Reserve Components at the time of a mobilization)

National Defense with a star

Southeast Asia Service Medal-not sure if three or four stars on it

Afghanistan Service Medal with campaign star

Iraq Campaign Medal with three or four stars

Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Service Medal with no stars (but later there was period that there were some stars awarded but I believe that was rescind)

Global War on Terrorism Service Medal

Army Service Ribbon

Army Overseas Service Ribbon

NATO medal for Kosovo (surprising no Kosovo Service Medal but the award criteria are different for these-this one requires thirty days either continuous or cumulative & the Kosovo requires thirty days consecutive or sixty days non consecutive)

Saudi Liberation of Kuwait Medal

Kuwaiti Liberation of Kuwait Medal

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VolunteerArmoury

His unit awards are from highest to lowest in order of precedence what I can tell though they are blurry to my eyes

Joint Meritorious Unit Award

Valorous Unit Award

Meritorious Unit Commendation

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VolunteerArmoury

thanks a lot.

The NATO medal is , I think, The NATO Kosovo medal

It is. I corrected that one after I had to cheat & look it up. I dont know the NATO medals that well. Surprised he didnt have a Kosovo Medal which he may not have simply put it on or he may not have earned one. The NATO Medal required thirty either consecutive or non consecutive days whereas the Kosovo Medal required thirty days consecutive or sixty non consecutive days. An example of a scenario that could warrant that would be someone with a some TDYs to Kosovo which wouldnt be unusual from higher levels such as Dept. Of Army or CALL, CGSC, CMH, Logistics,Material Command, etc.

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