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Admiral Byrd group on ebay


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#76 KASTAUFFER

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 12:53 PM

Photo from the 1988 auction catalog

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#77 pathfinder11

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 06:14 AM

As a museum with a number of RADM Byrd items, I would love if the auction house would reach out to the National Museum of American History. We are a repository for Medals of Honor and the associated insignia. We could safeguard the materials and make them available for display, research, etc.



#78 uniformcollector

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 01:54 PM

Anybody know what happened to this group?

#79 ram957

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 02:13 PM

Last time I looked the auction was ended early

#80 Brig

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 03:43 PM

Twice



#81 CNY Militaria

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 05:41 AM

It's back for auction:

 

https://www.ebay.com...Zp&LH_Auction=1

 

 

The Mini MOH appears to have been removed, and the MOH Ribbons photoshopped out. 



#82 Dave

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 05:50 AM

I've moved this thread to Medals & Decorations from its old location in Real or What as we have confirmed that it is a real grouping.

 

Dave



#83 USMCR79

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 07:04 AM

Photo from the 1988 auction catalog


I think that the DFC was bought in 1988 by George Harris for $6,200.00

Bill

#84 KASTAUFFER

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 07:21 AM

I think that the DFC was bought in 1988 by George Harris for $6,200.00

Bill

 

 

I'm pretty sure George bought them all.

 

Kurt



#85 Bob Hudson

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 08:15 AM

Here's what the sellers have posted on the new listing:

 

…… If you have been watching our auctions then you may have seen that we had this Admiral Byrd Military Grouping listed about a month ago. It created quite an uproar in the military community. We received hundreds of E-mails and phone calls, both positive and negative. We realized we did not handle this important grouping properly and we stopped the auction to regroup. We apologize to everyone for not handling this professionally and we have definitely learned a good lesson for the future.   

 
…… When we first received this Admiral Byrd Military Grouping we listed it just as we received it. As you already know it is against Federal Law to sell the Medal of Honor. This grouping had a miniature Medal of Honor and two ribbons with stars. We do not have the original Medal of Honor, which was actually sold in England in the late 1980s. What this grouping had was a miniature replica. EBay however has its own laws and does not allow the sale of MOH replicas such has pins and ribbons. Also, veteran groups discourage the sale of anything that relates to the Medal of Honor. Because of this we are listing this Admiral Byrd Military Grouping without the miniature medal or the two ribbons. We will not Sell this medal or the ribbons!!! We are selling everything else you can see in the photographs.
 
…… Since the last time we listed this groping we have properly researched and have traced down the true provenance of where this grouping came from. We traced it back though several pickers to a lady whose husband was an avid, life long military collector and hoarder. We have talked with her and she told us that her husband was a very good friend of Richard Byrd Jr., the son of Admiral Byrd. For years, they talked about opening a Military Museum together with the Admiral’s items as the centerpiece of the collection. Years went by and although they kept talking about a museum nothing ever came of it. Over the years many items were received and purchased from Richard Byrd Jr. including the Medals in this auction, plus many other important items. We have recieved a hand written COA letter from the original owner's wife, that explains this provenance. This letter will be included in this auction. With that, we will be listing this amazing and very important Admiral Byrd Military Grouping once again and you will find there is No reserve!   


#86 bobgee

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 09:23 AM

A very interesting & relevant sale as it affects the U.S. Medal collecting community. It is a shame that folks who are willing to pay good money to preserve American history are made to jump through hoops created by knee-jerk made laws that defy the rights of property ownership. Perhaps the consignor might have well been advised to sell them in the U.K. as sad as this would have been. The group would have remained intact. I'll be watching. My 2-cents. Thanks for the update, Bob..............Bobgee



#87 Sweazy21

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 12:07 PM

Its a shame the mini was removed from the bar. I had asked a few times for a photo of the back before they removed it. Unfortunately I didn’t get that chance. I really would of loved to have before photos instead of this.
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#88 emccomas

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 04:06 PM

Just a follow up on the MOH attributed to Admiral Byrd that is on display at VMI.

 

The Byrd MOH at VMI is a 5 point star version of the Medal of Honor.

 

I do not know if this medal is engraved on the reverse, and I believe that this is a "replacement" MOH to take the place of the Tiffany Cross version of the MOH.



#89 USMCR79

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 05:16 PM

 

 

I'm pretty sure George bought them all.

 

Kurt

 

I believe you are correct

 

Bill



#90 Teamski

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 12:45 PM

This is really, really, really heartbreaking.  How we can do this to history is a travesty of the highest order. Shame on our government for codifying their ill-conceived notions about the artifacts that make up our military heritage.  Shame on them for allowing for the exportation of our heritage by poisoning the artifacts themselves.  I worry about the Purple Heart.  I worry about those who happen to collect Nazi memorabilia.  We are at a beginning of a new era of persecution at the hands of the ignorant.  Byrd's MOH is just the very tip of the iceberg.  This makes me physically ill.  So, how to we fix this?  Do we stand by or can we mount a constitutional challenge to the Stolen Valor act?  If not, each medal will be shot down in order, from the DSC right down to the Bronze Star.  

 

-Ski



#91 dhcoleterracina

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 06:35 PM

$26,101



#92 dskjl

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 11:17 PM

A shame to see it defaced, amazing it still sold for what it did.

#93 uniformcollector

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 11:50 PM

Not sure if we will ever know what fully happened given the obvious legal hurdles, but the auction house seemed determined earlier to include the MOH as a gift to whoever won. Perhaps that is what they will do separate from the auction. For the sake of history, I think that would be the best thing to do, but maybe not in regards to SVA.



#94 Brig

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 05:03 AM

The mini MOH allone wasn't worth the 20k price difference, IMO. We have seen full size engraved sell for less on foreign sites, granted not Tiffany's Crosses but I would be surprised if they give it away free with a 20k difference in end prices...

#95 Bob Hudson

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 06:46 AM

Not sure if we will ever know what fully happened given the obvious legal hurdles, but the auction house seemed determined earlier to include the MOH as a gift to whoever won. Perhaps that is what they will do separate from the auction. For the sake of history, I think that would be the best thing to do, but maybe not in regards to SVA.

 

They cannot give it to anyone - except a museum of some sorts or a Byrd family member -  and they can't keep it.



#96 emccomas

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 07:00 AM

A final picture of the Ebay completed auction

 

 

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#97 Nack

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 08:16 AM

 
They cannot give it to anyone - except a museum of some sorts or a Byrd family member -  and they can't keep it.


I dont think thats correct, actually. The statutes/regs are a little confusing, but I dont believe that those are the only options.

#98 Bob Hudson

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 08:21 AM

I dont think thats correct, actually. The statutes/regs are a little confusing, but I dont believe that those are the only options.

 

Check out http://www.usmilitar...ssion/?p=517889

 

 

As it notes:

 

"18 USC 704, as regulated by 32 CFR 507, prohibits "purchasing, attempting to purchase, soliciting for purchase, mailing, shipping, importing, exporting, producing blank certificates of receipt for, manufacturing, selling, attempting to sell, advertising for sale, trading, bartering, or exchanging for anything of value" the Medal of Honor only."



#99 ajbUSWM

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 09:12 AM

From my talks with the FBI on this subject.. the miniature Tiffany Cross and MOH were not official awards and not restricted.  Also, any ribbon bar on a uniform that includes the MOH or Tiffany Cross is not restricted from sale or purchase.    They do not want to destroy and deface these important American historical artifacts for a law written by politicians in Washington D.C.    Not to mention it would not hold up in court.

 

From all my knowledge and all my discussions with experts and government officials.. there was no reason to remove the Tiffany cross from that grouping and no reason not to include it in the sale.   Many MOH/Tiffany Cross ribbon and miniature sales have occurred over the past 20 years and only one was stopped.  That one was stopped by the auction house out of concern not because the FBI told them to stop it ..  The FBI, who reviewed the auction, did not have a problem with that auctions selling two uniforms with sewn in MOH ribbon bars.   If the FBI didn't mind.. why do we keep debating this?

 

They also told me they do not have a problem with the sale or purchase of MFG ribbon bar store displays that may include the MOH or Tiffany Cross ribbon... again.. for the same reason... removing those ribbons is defacing our history and serves no logical purpose except to destroy our heritage.

 

I know we keep debating this... but frankly if this law ever goes to the Supreme Court.. it will be overturned in 30 seconds.. because it is 100% unconstitutional.


Edited by ajbUSWM, 17 November 2018 - 09:21 AM.



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