40 replies to this topic

[Tonomachi]

I picked this up yesterday morning at the flea market.  I was hoping a name was engraved on the back of the Good Conduct medal but I wasn't that lucky.  There were two cloth laundry tags bunching up the material in the center which I found out was hiding the letter and four number laundry number (D2217?) one looks for for a possible identification.  So the last name of the soldier starts with the letter D and I was wondering if the JD on both cloth laundry tags would indicate that the first letter of this soldier's first name was J?

 

 

 

 

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[Tonomachi]

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[Tonomachi]

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[Tonomachi]

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[Tonomachi]

I removed the cloth laundry tags to reveal this laundry number.  This came out of a storage locker and the seller had photos and documents that he unfortunately destroyed.  

 

 

 

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[kaszanka]

http://wwii-enlistme...&quick-search=1

 

 

there is a few J.D. 's with this number - what city is this uniform from ? that could narrow research.

 

sucks they destroyed the documents....  why would they do that ??? stupid...

Edited by kaszanka, 29 September 2018 - 09:18 AM.

[917601]

I have my fathers medals , a 342nd infantry regiment, 86th Infantry Division member. Shot up near Bilstein. Your ribbon bar needs to be switched. Good conduct , Am theatre, European theatre on top, then below would be the Asian theatre and victory medal. Be aware, the 86th was the only US army division that served in both the European and Pacific theatres. I have somewhere his official Blackhawk book with the complete names supplement ( it was a seperate booklet). My picture is also in error, the order should be American theatre, followed by the European theatre. For info, the two battle stars on the European Theatre are for the Rhine and Ruhr campaigns. The 86th was shipped to the Phillipines directly after the Germans surrendered, and reached the Phillipines a few days before the official Japanese surrender.

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Edited by 917601, 29 September 2018 - 01:02 PM.

[917601]

Battle map he received some time after reaching the US on a hospital ship from France. It does not show the 86th's Pacific involvement. I do remember him talking to other vets that made it all the way to the Phillipines, they pulled occupation duty and did suffer casualties fighting the Commies trying to take over the Phillipines. Very little found on that subject, even in official US Army archives.

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[917601]

Looking back at your photos, I wonder why no rank patches on the jacket? Any indications of being removed? Threads on the inside, loose threads on the outside?...also, did you check the back of the CIB? My father was proud of his, and it has his name scratched ( crudely etched) on it.

Edited by 917601, 29 September 2018 - 01:26 PM.

[Wake1941]

Ribbons are fine the way they are placed, most guys just threw these on coming home. Probably have been positioned this way since the 1940s

[BILL THE PATCH]

+1

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[Tonomachi]

Many thanks for everyone's input and information.  This uniform came out of a storage locker somewhere in Northern California.   The seller told me that he bought five lockers and always destroys any documents or photos associated with any locker he purchases.  I checked the back of the CIB and nothing only sterling marked clutch back.   I turned both sleeves inside and out and I don't see any ghosting where chevrons would have been sew on.  I didn't know that the 86th ID served in both theaters which explains why there are two campaign ribbons.  

[Wake1941]

Just a wild guess but judging by this tunic not having chevrons Id think this GI would be lower rank. Maybe PFC or corporal

[Edelweisse]

Nice 86th Blackhawks Div Ike jacket.  Looks good....the ETO Ribbon should have one (1) Battle star (Central Europe Campaign) since they moved up on the line south of Cologne (Koln) o/a Mar/Apr 45.  You should be able to ID the soldier...with the Laundry mark "D-2217". 

 

My Father was also in the 86th ID in the 341st Inf Reg...he served in 3rd Battalion HHC Intel.  Yes....right after surrender of Germany (i.e..end of ETO)….they were sent back to CONUS and then "tagged" for the invasion of mainland Japan.  After they departed San Francisco...the atomic bombs were dropped & Japan surrendered they off-loaded in the Philippines and rounded up Japanese military and fought Communist/Muslim rebels...so they were one of two US Army divisions that were authorized the ETO & Pacific Theater Operation medals.  

 

I'm still looking for the 342nd Inf Regiment book of the 86th ID which was published in California before they deployed to Europe.  I have most of the unit rosters of the 341, 342, & 343 Inf Regiments....but I need that book along with the 86th ID support elements units (i.e. Artillery, etc..)

 

Again...nice jacket ribbons out of order ...but no biggy

[Hookemhorns88]

Many thanks for everyone's input and information.  This uniform came out of a storage locker somewhere in Northern California.   The seller told me that he bought five lockers and always destroys any documents or photos associated with any locker he purchases.  I checked the back of the CIB and nothing only sterling marked clutch back.   I turned both sleeves inside and out and I don't see any ghosting where chevrons would have been sew on.  I didn't know that the 86th ID served in both theaters which explains why there are two campaign ribbons.  

Why would you want to destroy the items???!!!!

[patches]

I have my fathers medals , a 342nd infantry regiment, 86th Infantry Division member. Shot up near Bilstein. Your ribbon bar needs to be switched. Good conduct , Am theatre, European theatre on top, then below would be the Asian theatre and victory medal. Be aware, the 86th was the only US army division that served in both the European and Pacific theatres. I have somewhere his official Blackhawk book with the complete names supplement ( it was a seperate booklet). My picture is also in error, the order should be American theatre, followed by the European theatre. For info, the two battle stars on the European Theatre are for the Rhine and Ruhr campaigns. The 86th was shipped to the Phillipines directly after the Germans surrendered, and reached the Phillipines a few days before the official Japanese surrender.

97th Infantry Division was sent out there too, both the 86th and 97th Inf Div's were sent.

 

A great page on The Trident Div, see near bottom for an extensive narrative on the div's time in the Pacific.

 

http://www.97thdivis.../historyp1.html

[patches]

Found this on a member of the Blackhawk Division, great photos and stuff in the ETO and the PTO.

 

http://www.stamfordh...g/ww2_reiss.htm

[917601]

Nice 86th Blackhawks Div Ike jacket.  Looks good....the ETO Ribbon should have one (1) Battle star (Central Europe Campaign) since they moved up on the line south of Cologne (Koln) o/a Mar/Apr 45.  You should be able to ID the soldier...with the Laundry mark "D-2217". 
 
My Father was also in the 86th ID in the 341st Inf Reg...he served in 3rd Battalion HHC Intel.  Yes....right after surrender of Germany (i.e..end of ETO).they were sent back to CONUS and then "tagged" for the invasion of mainland Japan.  After they departed San Francisco...the atomic bombs were dropped & Japan surrendered they off-loaded in the Philippines and rounded up Japanese military and fought Communist/Muslim rebels...so they were one of two US Army divisions that were authorized the ETO & Pacific Theater Operation medals.  
 
I'm still looking for the 342nd Inf Regiment book of the 86th ID which was published in California before they deployed to Europe.  I have most of the unit rosters of the 341, 342, & 343 Inf Regiments....but I need that book along with the 86th ID support elements units (i.e. Artillery, etc..)
 
Again...nice jacket ribbons out of order ...but no biggy

All good info, however they were awarded two battle stars on the ETO ribbon. Official army archives state the " Rhine" and the " Ruhr" pocket campaigns. My father's original discharge papers say the same. You can look up in the Ft Benning archives letters, dispatches, reports...about the 341,342,343 on the Ft Benning historical site. That is the site I was able to piece together exactly where he was shot ( machine gunned). I did not realize a seperate book was published with just the regiments names, I know they trained in San Luis Obispo, CA for the pacific theatre before being shipped to Europe. I do have my father's original V mail letters, my aunt saved them all, very interesting from mentioning Cologne, Aachen leveled, to Nazi armbands and swastikas laying next to the Catholic cross in many homes.

Edited by 917601, 30 September 2018 - 02:09 PM.

[seanmc1114]

All good info, however they were awarded two battle stars on the ETO ribbon. Official army archives state the " Rhine" and the " Ruhr" pocket campaigns. My father's original discharge papers say the same. You can look up in the Ft Benning archives letters, dispatches, reports...about the 341,342,343 on the Ft Benning historical site. That is the site I was able to piece together exactly where he was shot ( machine gunned). I did not realize a seperate book was published with just the regiments names, I know they trained in San Luis Obispo, CA for the pacific theatre before being shipped to Europe. I do have my father's original V mail letters, my aunt saved them all, very interesting from mentioning Cologne, Aachen leveled, to Nazi armbands and swastikas laying next to the Catholic cross in many homes.

My grandfather served with Company K 343rd Infantry. He did not serve with the 86th stateside but arrived in Europe as a replacement and joined the division in Cologne before the division went into combat in the Battle of the Ruhr Pocket in April 1945. As a consequence, he did not earn the American Campaign Medal because he did not serve a year or more in the U.S., but he did have all of the other ribbons worn on your uniform. 

 

I have seen other 86th uniforms with European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign ribbons with two campaign ribbons, but officially no unit of the division was entitled to campaign participation in any campaign but Central Europe. 

[917601]

My grandfather served with Company K 343rd Infantry. He did not serve with the 86th stateside but arrived in Europe as a replacement and joined the division in Cologne before the division went into combat in the Battle of the Ruhr Pocket in April 1945. As a consequence, he did not earn the American Campaign Medal because he did not serve a year or more in the U.S., but he did have all of the other ribbons worn on your uniform. 
 
I have seen other 86th uniforms with European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign ribbons with two campaign ribbons, but officially no unit of the division was entitled to campaign participation in any campaign but Central Europe. 

I re-checked my father's discharge papers, they state " Rhineland" and " Central Europe". Official US Army archives state the same, thus the two battle stars on their European Campaign Medals. Unit history also verifies the eligible dates. I would post a picture of his discharge papers but I keep getting " file to big".

Edited by 917601, 02 October 2018 - 08:08 PM.

[seanmc1114]

I re-checked my father's discharge papers, they state " Rhineland" and " Central Europe". Official US Army archives state the same, thus the two battle stars on their European Campaign Medals. Unit history also verifies the eligible dates. I would post a picture of his discharge papers but I keep getting " file to big".

According to the official U.S. Army lineage and honors sheet for the 86th Division as well as the Campaign Participation Register for World War II, the only campaign participation credit for which any unit of the 86th was entitled was Central Europe. 

 

https://history.army...es/div/086d.htm

 

The Center of Military History website does not list the lineage and honors sheets for the infantry regiments of the 86th. 

 

In the attachment showing the page from the World War II Unit Citation and Campaign Participation Registry, you can see the three infantry regiments of the 86th are only entitled to campaign participation credit for one campaign - Central Europe - which is reflected by the number 26.  

 

I completely agree that the 86th and its units should have qualified for campaign participation in the Rhineland Campaign since the unit was located in Germany and specifically in Cologne during the the closing days of that campaign and actually engaged in combat during its time in Cologne, including engaging in artillery duels with German units and sending out infantry patrols across the Rhine River. However, for whatever reason, official records do not support that. But as I said in my previous post, I have seen other discharges of 86th veterans listing both campaigns. On the other hand, I have seen many, my grandfather's included, that only list Central Europe. 

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[patches]

Sawicki lists them in his Infantry Lineage book, Central Europe,

 

Rhineland

 

15 September 1944-21 March 1945

 

Here's a nice detailed narrative on the 86th Div's movements in mid March, from I think the divisional yearbook, Black Hawks Over The Danube: The History Of The 86th Infantry Division In World War II (from page 26 on). As you'll see they basically arrive in the Cologne-Deutz area after the official end date for The Rhineland Campaign, but as we've seen before on discharge papers, there are always some things just added by clerks, errors, omissions etc, and this is where the additional star and or campaign credit comes into play, a misinterpretation of orders and such.

 

https://archive.org/...Danube/page/n27

[917601]

Sawicki lists them in his Infantry Lineage book, Central Europe,
 
Rhineland
 
15 September 1944-21 March 1945
 
Here's a nice detailed narrative on the 86th Div's movements in mid March, from I think the divisional yearbook, Black Hawks Over The Danube: The History Of The 86th Infantry Division In World War II (from page 26 on). As you'll see they basically arrive in the Cologne-Deutz area after the official end date for The Rhineland Campaign, but as we've seen before on discharge papers, there are always some things just added by clerks, errors, omissions etc, and this is where the additional star and or campaign credit comes into play, a misinterpretation of orders and such.
 
https://archive.org/...Danube/page/n27

Thank you for the link. I now know what my father did not know, the rest of the story. It lines up exactly with my father's account. He was in I Company, 342nd, "machine gunned on April 10th marching down a hillside attacking towards a road junction" so he stated. - page 42 states I Company was advancing on the Bonzel road junction, when all hell broke loose (I Company had 50% casualties), they were going down the hill when they were fired upon by German artillery and MGs. My father said he was hit half way down, rolled the rest of the way down into a ditch and cow path ( he was shot in the groin, through the stomach, calf, thigh, and thumb with numerous ricochet marks all over his body) till the next morning. He remembers overhead US air support that afternoon. This reference states they were in " no man's land" till dark. He also recalled most of his buddies were hit. He was picked up by stretcher bearers the morning of the 11th. I wish he was still around to read this " official" account. Many thanks for the link.

Edited by 917601, 03 October 2018 - 03:46 PM.

[seanmc1114]

Thank you for the link. I now know what my father did not know, the rest of the story. It lines up exactly with my father's account. He was in I Company, 342nd, "machine gunned on April 10th marching down a hillside attacking towards a road junction" so he stated. - page 42 states I Company was advancing on the Bonzel road junction, when all hell broke loose (I Company had 50% casualties), they were going down the hill when they were fired upon by German artillery and MGs. My father said he was hit half way down, rolled the rest of the way down into a ditch and cow path ( he was shot in the groin, through the stomach, calf, thigh, and thumb with numerous ricochet marks all over his body) till the next morning. He remembers overhead US air support that afternoon. This reference states they were in " no man's land" till dark. He also recalled most of his buddies were hit. He was picked up by stretcher bearers the morning of the 11th. I wish he was still around to read this " official" account. Many thanks for the link.

I found the following source of information a few years ago:

 

https://www.eisenhow...ng_aids/u.html#

 

The Eisenhower Presidential Library has tons of after action reports, staff journals, general orders and other records of many World War II units including the 86th and its assigned units. I ordered copies of the records of the 343rd Infantry Regiment. It wasn't cheap, probably $150.00 or so, but there were dozens of records that have lots of details about the units' combat operations. I think the link I provided used to have a bibliography of all of the records available by unit, by I can't locate it on the site now. At any rate, this is definitely worth checking into if you really want some contemporary records that you may not know exist. 

[917601]

I found the following source of information a few years ago:
 
https://www.eisenhow...ng_aids/u.html#
 
The Eisenhower Presidential Library has tons of after action reports, staff journals, general orders and other records of many World War II units including the 86th and its assigned units. I ordered copies of the records of the 343rd Infantry Regiment. It wasn't cheap, probably $150.00 or so, but there were dozens of records that have lots of details about the units' combat operations. I think the link I provided used to have a bibliography of all of the records available by unit, by I can't locate it on the site now. At any rate, this is definitely worth checking into if you really want some contemporary records that you may not know exist. 

My interest now is to include that documentation with his medals, war map, discharge papers and VJ mails...no idea who it will be passed down to but this documented account is an excellent addition to his grouping....to find an official, published account of events the " day he was shot" ,a lifetime in the past , is simply unbelievable. Again, many thanks.