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80th Division Helmet markings WWI

Started by rolfi , Dec 05 2008 09:12 AM

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#21 80thdivcollector

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 09:28 AM

According to this data, there was no triangular-shaped insignia. The 317th Infantry used a diamond; the 318th used a square; the 319th used a circle; and the 320th used a half-circle (sometimes resembling a shield, as you show in your diagram). Specific colors were utilized by HQ Co, Supply Co, and Machine Gun Companies and 1st, 2nd and 3rd Battalions, as you note. The M.G. Battalions used a shield, with the specific colors of each Infantry Battalion of their attachment. The Engineers used a spade, with the red or white colors of its two battalions and their HQ Co. had a divided spade: top red, bottom white.

#22 80thdivcollector

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 09:41 AM

Source:
Second full paragraph on page 130 of History of the Eightieth Division, A.E.F., authored by Russell Stultz, and edited, enhanced and published by Dr. Anthony in 2004:

Previously announced, the distinctive symbols of the various units of the Division were
declared official on April 30th. For the four Infantry regiments, in their order beginning with the
317t h Infantry, they were a diamond, square, circle, and half-circle; the symbol of each unit's
Headquarters Company was colored red. white and blue, that of the Supply Company red and white.
and that of the Machine Gun Company red and blue; the battalion symbols were colored red, white,
and blue, in numerical order. The three Machine Gun Battalions were identified with a shield - blue
and white, red and white, and red and blue, in order, beginning with the 313M. Other units of the
command were assigned equally distinctive symbols, thereby enabling property and individuals to be
immediately identified by the markings required on the packing cases, wagons, helmets, and other
property articles.

Mr. Stultz was the official historian for the 80th Division in WW I, and spent years compiling data for his manuscript.The publication of the book in 2004 by Doc Anthony was not well received by the memorabilia community who claim to have "provenance" for certain markings, and insist that the Stultz data is wrong. However, Stultz was in the 80th Division, studied its history for many years following the War, and included official documents in his writing.
Stultz did not specifically identify lesser units (MST, Field Signal Bn, etc.) and I have seen a few other markings that obviously were utilized by these units.

Roland

#23 Bones

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 07:19 AM

I have posted this helmet in the WW1 painted helmets thread but here it is again for your discussion. It is part of a grouping a bought from a collector. There is no paper work with this grouping and I have not researched it yet. First the right side.

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#24 Bones

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 07:21 AM

This is the front. Have any of the 80th collectors scene the collar device punched through the helmet on any other 80th ID helmets?

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Edited by Bones, 27 February 2009 - 07:22 AM.


#25 Bones

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 07:23 AM

Left side of the helmet. 305 Engineers if I have read this thread correctly. You can see the owners intials scratched into the back rim.

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Edited by Bones, 27 February 2009 - 07:27 AM.


#26 Bones

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 07:26 AM

Gas mask bag. Named. The spade is on the right side. Also have this man's uniform with a French made patch.

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#27 rolfi

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 06:21 AM

re History of the Eightieth Division, A.E.F. Russell Stultz, and edited by Dr. Anthony in 2004

" the distinctive symbols of the various units of the Division were declared official on April 30th. For the four Infantry regiments, in their order beginning with the 317th Infantry, they were a diamond, square, circle, and half-circle"

Fascinating and undeniably useful information; but I wonder if, perhaps during Dr Anthony's editing and enhancement, it has been somehow garbled. Taken at face value we have the attribution of the markings for the infantry, as...
317th Infantry-diamond,
318th Infantry- square,
319th Infantry- circle and
320th Infantry- semi circle.

So far so good; but information posted elsewhere in this thread suggest that the diamond was actually used by 319th Infantry; see, for example, the gas mask bag of Private Harrer and the helmet mentioned by "mars&thunder" .I think that most would agree with the attribution of the semi circle to 320th Infantry. The ebay guide, by "80thdivcollector", attributes the square to 318th Infantry and I see little reason to doubt that. So we now have...
317th Infantry-circle (?),
318th Infantry- square,
319th Infantry- diamond and
320th Infantry- semi circle.

The colour sequence seems correct and explains the marking sketched; size 60 by 35 mm, found painted on the left side of a 80 Division helmet.

supply_319.jpg

I've not seen any helmets with painted discs attributed to 80th Division (can anyone post an example?), but I have seen one which seems to use the same system of a Company letter on a geometric shape; a red "F" on a white triangle. Perhaps coincidentally the Company letter and colour conform to the colour coding of the battalions; white for 2nd Battalion. Of course the marking may be nothing to do with 80th Division.
More problematic are the two helmets with shield shaped markings bearing the Company letters "D" and "E"; apparently both on green and definitely from 80th Division. Personally I think these are part of a later post war scheme; but I'll happily stand corrected.

My thanks to all who have contributed to this thread so far.

And for "VounteerArmory"; I/320 would have worn, on the left side of the helmet...

1_320.jpg

#28 CW4AFB

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 01:51 PM

Gents: for addition to the virtual databaes of 80th ID helmets; Co F of the 2nd BN of the Engineers: both tunics from the same guy.

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#29 80thdivcollector

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 07:01 AM

Folie1.JPG What do you think about that rolfi

#30 80thdivcollector

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 07:01 AM

Folie2.JPG

#31 80thdivcollector

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 07:33 AM

2ns9gms.jpg
319th Infantry Regiment, MG Coy

#32 80thdivcollector

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 07:43 AM

helmets011fb0.jpg
318th Infantry Regiment MG Coy

#33 80thdivcollector

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 07:44 AM

post_736_1195607613.jpg
305th Engineer Regiment 2nd Bn

#34 HelmetGuy

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 12:09 AM

Additional items with the shield of the 314th M.G.B., the Divisional Machine Gun Battalion of the 80th Division...

IMG_2243.JPG

#35 HelmetGuy

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 12:10 AM

Company A.

IMG_2251.JPG

IMG_2252.JPG

#36 HelmetGuy

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 12:11 AM

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#37 rolfi

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 06:14 AM

This is my take , so far, on the markings used by the four infantry regiments, machine gunners,artillery and engineers. Any additions?
80_div.jpg

#38 rolfi

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 04:00 AM

'80thdivcollector'
You're a gentleman and a scholar.

#39 80thdivcollector

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 07:21 AM

PICT0001.JPG
3rd Bn 317th Infantry Regiment

#40 80thdivcollector

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 07:23 AM

PICT0002.JPG
3rd Bn 319th Infantry Regiment


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