WW II Patches / Korea War Era Patches vs. Glowing Synthetic Material

[Stretchman89]

I was always taught that after 1948 synthetic thread was introduced into patch manufacturing. Therefore, patches from the 1950s can glow. I was recently harrassed by a rude ebayer seller that patches from the 1950s did not glow, period. Can anyone shed any light on this? Thanks

[Teamski]

They don't glow. I will complicate things and state that even most synthetic threads don't glow either. I have posted photos of repros in black light in other threads to prove it. The exceptions to this rule include patches made with silk threads and patches that have been washed in detergent containing phosphates.

 

-Ski

[tarbridge]

Black lights went out with psychedelic posters...

[jefmil]

I would like to hear more collectors chime in on this subject. While I agree that early USA made patches from the 50's do not glow or should not glow. Does that rule apply to German made post war patches? In my experience sometimes the whilte parts of post war German made / occupation patches appear to fluoresce under blacklight. Are we splitting hairs and sayings 50's made patches don't glow but 60's made patches might?

Thoughts?

Jefmil

[phillock]

Gentlemen

 

I use a UV as a guide only and has never failed me in deciding an era when a patch was issued.

 

However that is only one approach, don't just rely on UV, you have to know the history of the SSI concerned, collect known WWII and post WWII era examples of the same SSI. Know about construction/manufacturing techniques over the years.

 

Invest in references like the Kellers Emblem of Honor series , join ASMIC, make contacts and develop relationships, don't just rely on the forum as the be all and end all.

 

However there is plenty of references on the forum, use the search button and post for opinions.

 

If you are looking for a one size fits all , there is none and thats the beauty of collecting SSI.

 

Jeffmil to answer your questions, polyester thread slowly came into manufacturing process in the 50's, when it was cheaper to produce.However there was still an abundance of rayon thread available and that was still used into the 60's. Polyester thread became the thread of choice as more was produced and became cheaper for manufacturers to use into the 60's and onwards.

 

Regarding occupation period patches,depending on what unit you are talking about, some units were in existence past the date you might assume so you need to know the unit history and its movements etc..

 

As an example I have a late 1960's German made ESB,another one on the forum was referenced as occupation period piece!!

 

As for the WWII/50's "starched" glowing patches they are anomalies.I have a WWII 48th ID Phantom Div, that was reissued to, Florida NG 124th Inf.(including image) and was worn in 1948, the patch has all the manufacturing techniques of a WWII era patch, remembering not much manufacturing process would of changed and it glows can't explain why, had me scratching my head for a while but its an anomaly.

 

Here is a good thread on glowing patches:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/80385-more-on-glowing-patches/?hl=glow

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/44987-blacklights/?hl=glow

 

Use of detergent discussion:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/178003-the-some-ww2-patches-glow-challenge/?hl=detergent

 

 

Again I only use the UV as part of my detective work!

 

Anyway those are my thoughts.

 

Phill

[phillock]

Would make a correction phosphate in detergents will make patches glow hence my 48th ID phantom glowed after being washed. Late at night writing !

 

The first commercialized detergents to come into use in the US (Tide)was test marketed in 1946 by P&G and full production by 1949.

 

https://www.cleaninginstitute.org/clean_living/soaps__detergent_history_3.aspx

 

https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/education/whatischemistry/landmarks/tidedetergent.html

 

Phill

[Kadet]

The brightening agents used in the manufacture of more modern white cloth and paper items will cause the object to glow an incandescent blue/purple color. Synthetic fabrics themselves do not necessarily glow....that is a misconception. The only UV reaction to be concerned with is the one I described. Other period materials glow different colors. Some original WWII german insignia for example will have an orange glow. Period hide glues and varnishes will often glow a yellow/green color. Again, UV is really only useful against white colored artifacts, to include paper. Its also important to ascertain the difference between a UV reaction and a UV reflection. Take the object in to a very dark space, place it on a modern piece of white printer paper and hit it with the black light. The paper will have a true reaction. Compare that to the object. Detergents and other modern cleaners with whitening agents can absolutely cause the blue/purple glowing effect, although it will be less distinct and more "splotchy".

 

Here is a good example of what I'm talking about. The lacquer/shellac used in the application of German helmet decals glows the green/yellow color I mentioned. So do period hide-based glues. This is absolutely correct and exactly what you want to see. In fact you will sometimes see this same color glow on US WWII ribbons that have a varnish or waxy coating. The flag behind it is a very modern one that probably has synthetic fibers in the whole thing. The white stars glow the incandescent blue color, but the blue portion (made from the same material) is dead to UV.

 

To sum it up; UV is useful, but only if you know how to use it and what you are looking at!

[jefmil]

Appreciate everyones input.

Jefmil