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Tru-Spec Multicam Uniform?


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#1 warbird15

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:23 AM

Saw this at a thrift shop. It is a TRU-SPEC uniform and uses the Multicam pattern, not OCP. It has the U.S. Army and nametape in the reddish brown color that the air force uses. 

 

Is this an actual uniform? If so why is the U.S. Army and nametape not the standard black color?

 

Thanks

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#2 warbird15

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:24 AM

The tag

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#3 Pegasus6

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:28 AM

The Army has never used the Redish brown. The only "" Multicam which is proprietary to crye precision the Army has ever issued is the Flame Resistant OCP and it is a different blend and has a different hue to the color; for troops overseas. This is somebodies custom made shirt.

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#4 Cap Camouflage Pattern I

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:29 AM

Weird. Don't have an answer but I'm interested.



#5 Pegasus6

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:31 AM

Also it IS within regulation to Sew the name tags and rank. It is NOT in regulation to have mis-match name tapes and the rank being hook-loop fastener or vice versa, although yes it is seen occasionally.

#6 BagmanL6

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:59 AM

Pegasus 6 makes some very valid points.  I've bought a lot of modern groupings direct from the Vet which have included some non-issue or "not normal" uniform/gear.  I have had Tru-Spec in multicam.  For whatever reason the soldier bought and wore them.  I've had multicam Army style name tapes that were US Navy vice US Army.  First time I've seen US Army in the traditional US Air Force thread.  Could very well be a fantasy piece but I wouldn't dismiss it just yet.



#7 Pegasus6

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 12:07 PM

All,

alright 1 more time. And thank you Bagman. So as a current serving member since 2004 and with an Afghanistan deployment in 2011:

1- This is a new top... its never been worn.
2- It is not the issue FRACO (Even tho for a brief period Civilian purchased multicam pattern uniforms such as this in the same pattern (Cut) made by true-spec could* be worn in tandem with FRACU (the official name for the fire resistant version) (Fire Resistant Army Combat Uniform) Pattern "OCP" until the ACU pattern with the ACU (Cut) Wear out date which is 1 OCT 19. The ACU Cut and the current OCP Cut ie pockets/Velcro is different. Yea don't ask me why we re-use acronyms.
3- So could and or are Soldiers stateside be wearing a TRU-SPEC Multicam? Yes, but at this point why? they cost more than the issue/purchased at AAFES... the new ACU in OCP has been available now for over 3 years to Soldiers to purchase or be issued in clothing bag starting at Basic Training.
4- Has the US Army ever worn red thread? No, NO,
5- Again Soldier would not do name and U.S. ARMY and not the rank they are done together. For those reasons this is NOT a top made by a US Army (and or Guard or Reserve) top.
6- Are there non-standard items? Yes- are they worn stateside? no not really not for anything formal, and overseas most of the time you match up 100% with the man or woman standing to your left or right and all wearing what the 1SG and CDR prescribe.

I cannot speak for other services. But No doubt in my military mind this is not a Soldiers. My bet- Fantasy piece, movie/prop? Sure. If it was a US Soldiers at the time, it was an order or sew shop that he or she ordered it from screwed it up.

-Peg6

VR
Peg6

#8 RedLegGI

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 12:57 PM

The uniform is the ACU cut in the OCP pattern. The difference between Multicam and OCP are literally, the presence of verticle lines and multicam is a bit lighter shade.Truspec jumped the gun on their velcro color choice and went with the brown velcro found on the experimental '09 multicam issued for trial in Afghanistan.  The actual adoption of multicam in '10 saw the velcro change to a more green color.  The 670-1 states that the thread color should be black on both the US Army and their name, however, that doesn't mean it was always followed.  I've got a uniform in my collection where the soldier didn't have access to sew shop, so all of his insignia (without unit) are done in sharpie.  It is possible this guy ordered tapes from an area around a USAF base, and subsequently got brown and went with it.

 

It seems a waste to have a uniform sewn up, and the not to wear it.  I've seen, and have, a uniform with new DCU tapes sewn directly over the old green ones.  Alternatively, sew shops are experts at removing tapes, insignia and rank, so I'm not sure why they wouldn't have done it there, but I suspect this soldier was in a hurry and just needed tapes.  To me it looks laundered a bit (beyond the thrift store if they did it), as the colors don't seem as dark as they normally are.  The only reason I'd pass on this jacket is that it is missing so much insignia.  If it were still complete, I'd snatch it up in a heart beat.

 

Hope this helps.

 

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#9 warbird15

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 01:05 PM

Thanks for the replies. I was skeptical about this so I passed. Just thought it was unusual. I just wonder why someone went through the trouble to attach their name and the army tape and then never use it?

On a side note there was an identical uniform with it (same size and condition) except it didn’t have the tapes added on.

Thanks again everyone


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#10 warbird15

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 01:12 PM

The uniform is the ACU cut in the OCP pattern. The difference between Multicam and OCP are literally, the presence of verticle lines and multicam is a bit lighter shade.Truspec jumped the gun on their velcro color choice and went with the brown velcro found on the experimental '09 multicam issued for trial in Afghanistan.  The actual adoption of multicam in '10 saw the velcro change to a more green color.  The 670-1 states that the thread color should be black on both the US Army and their name, however, that doesn't mean it was always followed.  I've got a uniform in my collection where the soldier didn't have access to sew shop, so all of his insignia (without unit) are done in sharpie.  It is possible this guy ordered tapes from an area around a USAF base, and subsequently got brown and went with it.
 
It seems a waste to have a uniform sewn up, and the not to wear it.  I've seen, and have, a uniform with new DCU tapes sewn directly over the old green ones.  Alternatively, sew shops are experts at removing tapes, insignia and rank, so I'm not sure why they wouldn't have done it there, but I suspect this soldier was in a hurry and just needed tapes.  To me it looks laundered a bit (beyond the thrift store if they did it), as the colors don't seem as dark as they normally are.  The only reason I'd pass on this jacket is that it is missing so much insignia.  If it were still complete, I'd snatch it up in a heart beat.
 
Hope this helps.
 



See the little white/grey tag on the wearer’s left sleeve? It said Multicam (My apologies I knew I should’ve taken a pic of it). So I thought it was actual Multicam?

But interesting note on the Velcro color. I wasn’t aware of that. And yes I believe this uniform was laundered a bit too, but definitely not worn a lot.


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#11 Pegasus6

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 03:42 PM

Alright,
 
I don't know why I bother sometimes responding if people just ganna make their own opinions on facts... You were right to pass on this if you are looking for a US Soldiers actual top. I repeat THIS IS NOT A SOLDIERS JACKET never was. It was made by a civillian, for airsoft? a personal token? a personal militia? Hell I dunno but it wasn't a Soldier down on his luck... who needed a Sharpie, or wasn't near a proper sew shop CONUS or even OCONUS. Even if a sew shop screwed up the coat, these things are 75$ a pop... He or she would have it redone... All US enlisted Soldiers are issued government purchased by contract uniforms. All Officers purchase the same stuff... The uniform you were looking at was a civilian made by tru-spec NOT for a military contract, but that at the moment can be worn until 1 OCT 2019 IAW Regulations and AR 670-1 and associated DA Pams (Department of the Army Pamphlets)  (that type of shirt is and was only worn by Officers or Soldiers who couldn't purchase OCP yet, and had not deployed yet to be issued FRACU MCAMS, who had been issued ACU UCP, and wanted to feel high speed)The current military isn't 5 million deployed. its around 1 million total Guard and Reserve + Active Duty, Soldiers overseas don't get into theatre with the wrong uniforms, we are really talking flukes beyond that which this is not. The uniform shown could have been purchased clean with nothing in another life/not this one.An actual US Soldier would have put the proper sown on tapes, and a rank. Or not, because that's expensive, so new Joes just through basic 1. wouldn't have bought this, 2 Officers would have done it properly or if anyone even tried to show up wearing that they would get their asses handed to them by anyone and everyone and laughed at by everyone in their unit, especially by their best friends...
 
Also Multicam in FRACU material and CUT is the ONLY "multicam" purchased and issued by the US Army. Civillian ACU CUT 50/50 Ripstop nylon or cotton blends can be worn stateside, if worn IAW with the regulations previously stated until 1 OCT 2019.

The Army OCP uniform is a different cut, and pattern. There are no civillian companies with the same pattern. Yes if you are around the stuff for any period of time it sticks out quite differently.
 
Here are just 3 of mine from right out of the closet. 1. ACU  (Army combat uniform) with UCP (universal camouflage pattern)  2. FRACU ACU in multicam (Flame Resistant Army combatuniform, multicam pattern) as made for deployments for Soldiers. Yes the Navy and Air Force wear OCP overseas, the coat in question says U.S. Army so I'm not going into that) and 3. The Army ACU OCP (Army Combat Uniform, Operational Camouflage Pattern).
 
PM me if you would like to get some higher resolution photos.

VR
Pegasus6

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#12 USARV72

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 06:50 AM

Gee, if cammo is needed they should have just kept ERDL, brown or green. Was article in Retired Officers magazine a few years ago titled, “ Camo Flawed” detailing the millions spent on the new cammo uniforms. Agree that our Sailors only need the good ole Blue uniforms for shipboard wear, Seabees and SEALs need cammo. Never forget Army basic class on Target ID, 2 troops at about 400-500 yds in brush, one wearing standard “ Pickle Suit” standing still, the other slowly raising and lowering his arms. Extreemly difficult to see the still troop.

#13 Pegasus6

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 07:23 AM

Gee, if cammo is needed they should have just kept ERDL, brown or green. Was article in Retired Officers magazine a few years ago titled, Camo Flawed detailing the millions spent on the new cammo uniforms. Agree that our Sailors only need the good ole Blue uniforms for shipboard wear, Seabees and SEALs need cammo. Never forget Army basic class on Target ID, 2 troops at about 400-500 yds in brush, one wearing standard Pickle Suit standing still, the other slowly raising and lowering his arms. Extreemly difficult to see the still troop.


Yea I loved the BDU's... Much more quality construction, efficient pattern. MCAM and OCP are basically the old BDU pattern on steroids, shrunk smeared and peppered pattern.

#14 RedLegGI

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 07:31 AM

Alright,
 
I don't know why I bother sometimes responding if people just ganna make their own opinions on facts... You were right to pass on this if you are looking for a US Soldiers actual top. I repeat THIS IS NOT A SOLDIERS JACKET never was. It was made by a civillian, for airsoft? a personal token? a personal militia? Hell I dunno but it wasn't a Soldier down on his luck... who needed a Sharpie, or wasn't near a proper sew shop CONUS or even OCONUS. Even if a sew shop screwed up the coat, these things are 75$ a pop... He or she would have it redone... All US enlisted Soldiers are issued government purchased by contract uniforms. All Officers purchase the same stuff... The uniform you were looking at was a civilian made by tru-spec NOT for a military contract, but that at the moment can be worn until 1 OCT 2019 IAW Regulations and AR 670-1 and associated DA Pams (Department of the Army Pamphlets)  (that type of shirt is and was only worn by Officers or Soldiers who couldn't purchase OCP yet, and had not deployed yet to be issued FRACU MCAMS, who had been issued ACU UCP, and wanted to feel high speed)The current military isn't 5 million deployed. its around 1 million total Guard and Reserve + Active Duty, Soldiers overseas don't get into theatre with the wrong uniforms, we are really talking flukes beyond that which this is not. The uniform shown could have been purchased clean with nothing in another life/not this one.An actual US Soldier would have put the proper sown on tapes, and a rank. Or not, because that's expensive, so new Joes just through basic 1. wouldn't have bought this, 2 Officers would have done it properly or if anyone even tried to show up wearing that they would get their asses handed to them by anyone and everyone and laughed at by everyone in their unit, especially by their best friends...
 
Also Multicam in FRACU material and CUT is the ONLY "multicam" purchased and issued by the US Army. Civillian ACU CUT 50/50 Ripstop nylon or cotton blends can be worn stateside, if worn IAW with the regulations previously stated until 1 OCT 2019.

The Army OCP uniform is a different cut, and pattern. There are no civillian companies with the same pattern. Yes if you are around the stuff for any period of time it sticks out quite differently.
 
Here are just 3 of mine from right out of the closet. 1. ACU  (Army combat uniform) with UCP (universal camouflage pattern)  2. FRACU ACU in multicam (Flame Resistant Army combatuniform, multicam pattern) as made for deployments for Soldiers. Yes the Navy and Air Force wear OCP overseas, the coat in question says U.S. Army so I'm not going into that) and 3. The Army ACU OCP (Army Combat Uniform, Operational Camouflage Pattern).
 
PM me if you would like to get some higher resolution photos.

VR
Pegasus6

 

I don't think anyone has yet said that this was a government issue jacket. The pattern looks more like OCP than Multicam, but with the tag, I'm sure they paid their royalty.  Sometimes the private purchase stuff doesn't quite match issue.  You are correct that everyone is issued uniforms but we both know they wear out.  The last time I purchased them the complete uniform ran ~$70, and let me tell you how many sets i purchased out of my own pocket (uniform allowance helped a bit).  The moment OCP was authorized for wear, soldiers were running out and buying it, even if it wasn't available at the PX.  This left them with TruSpec or Propper who knew soldiers would want it for stateside wear.

 

I know you're talking from your personal experiences, and as a 6 element, at a command level.  But, you have to keep in mind that your experiences, aren't everyone's and that the Army is a vast entity.  Having picked up items with their history since getting back from Iraq, I can tell you from personal observations, that a lot of strange things happen.  Is it likely this soldier wore it a few times and got told to hang it up, absolutely.  Most of these airsoft kids want the highspeed looking gear. High cut helmets, Crye branded combat shirts, and anything SF/SEAL/MARSOC they can get their hands on.  They can literally go to a surplus shop, buy a used multicam top for $15, slap insignia on for $10 and walk out the door with a complete uniform.  But this top, as you said, is vastly more expensive.  Why would a kid spend that much when there are cheaper, lightly used options?  For Campbell's shops have hundreds of tops in every size, and I'm sure its the same way at every other post.

 

Everything about the technical aspect of whats authorized, is 100% correct, no disagreement there.



#15 [email protected]

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 10:59 PM

LOL, I have actually seen this happen once before and may have an answer. In that case the guy was doing a school on a AFB and the air Force clothing and sales didn't have multicam so he got a set from some tactical shop and got tapes done on the AFB. They used reddish brown thread. His set was made by Popper international as I remember.

Edited by [email protected], 13 September 2018 - 11:00 PM.


#16 RedLegGI

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 03:08 AM

LOL, I have actually seen this happen once before and may have an answer. In that case the guy was doing a school on a AFB and the air Force clothing and sales didn't have multicam so he got a set from some tactical shop and got tapes done on the AFB. They used reddish brown thread. His set was made by Popper international as I remember.

 

Good verification for my theory above.



#17 warbird15

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 12:13 PM

LOL, I have actually seen this happen once before and may have an answer. In that case the guy was doing a school on a AFB and the air Force clothing and sales didn't have multicam so he got a set from some tactical shop and got tapes done on the AFB. They used reddish brown thread. His set was made by Popper international as I remember.


That’s interesting, makes sense that he would’ve gotten the reddish brown thread if he got the tapes on an AFB. I’m guessing the guy didn’t wear that uniform for very long? Which would explain why the uniform here doesn’t show much wear.


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#18 Pegasus6

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 02:14 PM

Again why ya'll keep saying this was a Soldiers and making up possibly scenarios vs just some joe for whatever purpose prop/film/airsoft or whatnot is what is mystifying me. Why keep saying wonder how this Soldier did this, when this wasn't done by a Soldier... Its a worse then 1000:1 odds here.

#19 BagmanL6

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 04:48 PM

I'm mystified by your mystification or as a young, dashing, salty infantry god said once at Amphibious Warfare School ..."We're all victims of our experience."

 

Seriously, the OP posted a uniform item he came across and asked for opinions/inputs.  You gave yours which is valid and makes solid points.  Others gave theirs based on their experiences in uniform (i.e. many of us collectors have served and been down range) and/or in collecting.  Not sure where your collecting interest lie but knowing the other two contributors in this discussion they are well versed and experienced in modern militaria.  I know Ben personally and respect his knowledge and experience in modern collectibles.  If he says he's seen it and has the provenance behind it then I believe him.

 

The reality of the situation is the OP has received from 4 experienced collectors opinions as to the top.  It's all a learning experience.  I invite you to PM if you choose and I'll send you the information as to a Forum focused on GWOT items.  I'd offer that you'd be surprised as to some of the stuff being added to collections.



#20 warbird15

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 08:11 PM

I enjoy hearing everyone’s opinions and I know that people on here have way more knowledge than I do which is why I posted this.

I think we have all reached the consensus that this is NOT regulation.

But that doesn’t dismiss the possibility that this could be a real uniform created under certain circumstances (as mentioned by others on this thread) However there is also the chance that this was not intended for military use.




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#21 vzemke

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 10:20 PM

US Army and name tapes with brown thread were being made at the sew shop on FOB Salerno, Afghanistan back in early 2010 when the first trial runs of Multicam were being used in RC-East.  Was it regulation? No, but it was being done.  

 

(not saying this is one of those, just that its something that has happened before)



#22 vzemke

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 10:26 PM

Just for the sake of discussion, here is an official US Army publicity photo from March 2010.  Note he is wearing a DCU pattern shoulder patch.  You can see how it would be *possible* that people would be confused as to what the correct name tape thread would be, since DCUs used brown thread.  

 

 

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#23 RedLegGI

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 06:41 PM

Just for the sake of discussion, here is an official US Army publicity photo from March 2010.  Note he is wearing a DCU pattern shoulder patch.  You can see how it would be *possible* that people would be confused as to what the correct name tape thread would be, since DCUs used brown thread.  

 

 

 

One of the other things people don't realize is that the tapes being worn on those early multicam tops, were UCP.  No one could get a hold of multicam, so they simply threw their UCP tapes and rank on them.  The most complete one I have ever seen, I own, and it's because I lucked out.  He must have gotten promoted, and threw his E-5 rank in his breast pocket and forgot about it.  That is the only time I have seen one of these test pieces with any sort of patch remaining.

 

Also, another one for the ages.  Wearing mix-and-match camo patterns in Afghanistan.  This pic is a screen grab from the documentary 'The Hornet's Nest'.
 

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