Another case of officer during WWII and then demoted after war...

[doinworkinvans]

https://m.ebay.com/itm/20th-Army-Airforce-ww2-thru-Korea-Uniform-group-Gunner-to-LT-Named/163219092840?hash=item26009db568:g:wNAAAOSwdudbgC2yI have a set kind of like this....was an officer (Lt.) during WWII and then after wards I suppose lost his rank....I have two jackets from same soldier 100% confirmed.

 

Here we see another case on eBay at the moment....I obviously dont think the gunner wings belong on the officer uniform....care to share thoughts??

[doinworkinvans]

You can also obviously read the description and take the families words for what they are worth

[Martinjmpr]

I thought only enlisted men got Ruptured Ducks?

[Dave]

Very sad story, it seems:

 

A very cool uniform grouped names to Walter H. Jordan of North Olmstead,Ohio. Lt Jordan served in the 20th AAF as a Gunner during WW2 and then served as a crew member on board B-29's in High Altitude tests during the Korean War. The info from his daughter quotes that he suffered a Stroke while on a test and was crippled and left in a wheelchair for the rest of his life. I was unable to confirm this info. The group consists of a pair of 3" sterling bombadeer wings with just a sterling mark . A late ww2 Ike with 20th aaf and 5th aaf patches and post war AAF patches plus a Ruptured duck. A combination I have never seen. A complete LT uniform brown with combat cord and aaf collar wings and LT bars plus a felt AAF patch and a 20th aaf patch. The pants and a cap with his name embroidered on the inside. There is also a officer's pink shirt made in Miami with the sleeves cuffed short. A set of bullion 3yrs overseas bars on the sleeve. The insignia except the wings are tarnished and there are small nips and a few small stains. The group does need a good airing out or cleaning.

[doinworkinvans]

I thought only enlisted men got Ruptured Ducks?

Yea I cant quite figure this one out....I have learned to never say never but it just makes me scratch my head

[Martinjmpr]

WRT the Ruptured Duck, my understanding (corrections welcomed) is that the decoration was to indicate an honorable discharge. Since enlisted men at that time were not authorized to be in possession of civilian clothing, once they were discharged the only clothing they had was their uniform.

 

The Ruptured Duck was sewn onto the outer uniform jacket or shirt so that the soldier, sailor or marine could wear his uniform home, and anyone who saw him would see the badge and know that he was not an AWOL soldier but a discharged one (this was apparently enough of a problem to require some kind of a solution.)

 

Again, just going on my understanding of the way the military was back then, officers were usually not "discharged" in the same way as enlisted men. Officers typically held both an 'active' commission and a 'reserve' commission. The ranks weren't necessarily the same, as an officer might have one rank on active duty and another rank in the reserves (I think the reserve rank was usually higher but I can't remember if that's the case or if I have it backwards and the reserve rank was usually lower.)

 

Unless they were retired, officers were not usually discharged, instead they were transferred to the reserves from active duty - such a transfer would not require a "ruptured duck" because the officer wasn't actually being discharged, just transferred from one component to another. He was still an officer in the military.

 

Now, the only exceptions I can think of may be if an officer was discharged for medical reasons. That might rate a "ruptured duck."

 

The other possibility might be if he voluntarily resigned his commission. I believe officers that resigned their commissions were allowed to come back in as enlisted men and it may be that may explain why he has a ruptured duck (resigned his commission) and subsequent enlisted USAF service.

 

BTW during my time in the Army, every now and then you'd run into an NCO was was a former officer who had been "RIF'd", or removed from the service under a Reduction in Force after Vietnam. They were usually allowed to come back in as NCO's at the E-5 grade and most of them were squared-away enough that they quickly made rank.

 

Even as late as 2001, I had an E-5 in my detachment who was a former aviator. He either got RIF'd or resigned his commission and later came into the National Guard as an enlisted man.

 

Seeing a buck sergeant wearing an aviator badge (not a crew badge) makes you do a double take!

[everforward]

I know of a WW2 Battalion XO (Major) in the 116th that went ashore at Omaha as a Major on 6 June 44, stayed a Major through the war and home.......wanted to stay in the National Guard afterwards but had to take a Warrant Officer slot due to availability of positions...remained a WO up into the 50s.

[Flashlarue]

When I joined the USAR we had a maintenance Sargent E5 who had been an Captain during WW2. He had earned the Medal of Honor, Silver Star, Purple Heart and much more. He attended drill strictly for points and didn't receive pay. On the rare occasion we wore our class A uniforms he only wore the ribbons he earned in the Reserves. I asked him about it once and he told me WW2 was a different life and that was no longer who he was. At that time he had in excess of 30 years of service and according to him Congress had to approve his extension each time it came due. He was a great guy but refused to talk about WW2.

[GIKyle]

As mentioned above, he did to lose lose rank, but rather reverted to an enlisted rank. Before wWII we had the Regular Army, to which all soldiers and officers belonged. As the Army grew, soldiers held dual ranks- a regular Army rank, and an Army's of the United States rank. Thus, when's the Army contracted after the war, some wanting to remain in the service took a reduction in rank. I personally have a group to a guy who was an Old Army sergeant, made captain in WWII, was reverted to E-6 post-war, and made SGM by the mid-60s.

 

Kyle

[Kadet]

Regarding the Ruptured Duck, it was also issued to officers upon separation. This is normally noted on the discharge form as "Lapel Pin Issued". Officers typically did not wear the patch on their uniforms though. This probably has to do with the procedures used at the separation centers. Enlisted men were lined up with their uniforms and a seamstress machine sewed the patches on for them. Officers would have been exempt from this sort of cattle call event. Officers also would not have been considered an AWOL risk. That said, you do occasionally see Ruptured Ducks applied to officer uniforms for whatever reason. Incidentally, Army Ruptured Ducks are almost always machine sewn, even if the other insignia is hand done. Hand sewn Ruptured Ducks on Army uniforms are always a red flag for me. Believe it or not, the other original method I've seen used is glue.

[Kadet]

The first line in Block 43 of this officer discharge document refers to the Ruptured Duck. Also, as Kyle mentioned, WWII was fought by the Army of the United States (AUS). The AUS was a combination of the Regular Army (which was tiny at the time), the Army Reserve and the Federalized National Guard. It was a mechanism to quickly create the massive, artificial billet needed to put millions of men in uniform. The AUS was dissolved at the end of WWII and its members were either discharged or placed back in their original components. Those men wishing to stay in the RA often had to take a demotion and/or conversion in to some other occupational field in order to stay. Most WWII Army discharge documents will have AUS as the component, and the AUS is why most WWII Army officers were technically in the Reserves. I have an airborne group to a man who was a professional RA soldier before the war, worked his way up to SSG in the 82nd, received a battlefield commission, was discharged as a Captain, reverted back to the RA at the end of the war as a SGT, then later regained his commission in the Quartermaster Corps. He ultimately retired as an RA Major.