Basket Hilt Highland Broadsword

[kanemono]

Here is a basket hilt highland broadsword that belonged to Joseph Laing who was Colonel of the 79th New York (Cameron Highlanders) during the Civil War.

[tarbridge]

Coming from the Argyle Colony...that is neat...

[Fritz]

Very nice!!

 

Fritz

[sundance]

That's beautiful. Is there a maker's name on it? Do you know whether he survived the war? I can't tell from the pic how old he might have been when that shot was taken.

[kanemono]

Here is a biography of Laing. There is no makers mark that I can find, the blade has the cypher of Queen Victoria. This is not the sword in the photograph since this has a steel scabbard anr the other sword has a leather scabbard. Joseph was a wealthy man so I imagine he had a number of swords. The photograph of Laing is post war. Here are other items that are in the group.

 

Joseph Laing was born in was born in Paisley, Scotland on May 10, 1828, and served an apprenticeship as an engraver in the famous establishment of William Home Lizars, Edinburgh, Scotland. He came to the United States in 1845, and five years later entered into business for himself as an engraver and print publisher. When the Civil War broke out he enlisted as Captain of Company G, 79^th New York (Cameron Highlanders) and was wounded at the first Battle of Bull Run where their commander, Colonel Cameron, brother of Secretary of War Simon Cameron, was killed. Laing suffered four bullet wounds resulting in wounds to his forearm and head and neck leaving him with impaired hearing. The Highlanders sustained one of the highest number of casualties among Union regiments engaged in the battle. Laing was wounded eight times during the war, and was captured twice but managed to escape on both occasions The regiment took part in the expedition to Port Royal Ferry in January 1862 and saw action at Pocotaligo, S.C. In June, the Highlanders were part of the expedition to James Island and took part in the Battle of Secessionville. In August 1862, the regiment was involved in Pope's Campaign in Northern Virginia and, just a year after the death of Colonel Cameron at Bull Run, the regiment was once again fighting over the same battlefield. During the Maryland Campaign of September 1862, the 79th saw action at the battles of South Mountain and Antietam. Following Antietam, the regiment saw duty in Maryland, and in December took part in the Battle of Fredericksburg. The 79th participated in the ill-fated "Mud March" of January 1863. At Fort Sanders (known by the Confederates as Fort Loudoun), Knoxville, the Highlanders helped inflict a massive defeat on Longstreet's troops. In April, the Highlanders rejoined the Army of the Potomac in time to fight at the battles of the Wilderness and Spotsylvania, being engaged in the assault on the salient known as the "Mule Shoe." Again they faced Longstreet's hard fighting veterans and once more the 79th drove them from the field, losing five more men killed or mortally wounded in the fight. Their colonel, David Morrison, was wounded and command was passed to Colonel Laing. As the regiment stood in line on the bloody battlefield, the men received the order for muster-out, their term of enlistment having expired on 13 May 1864. After the war Laing resumed business as an engraver, lithographer and print publisher, executing steel, copper plate, lithographic engraving and printing. He was the Colonel of the 79^th Regiment New York National Guard until it was disbanded in 1876. Joseph Laing died on November 22, 1905 and is buried in Greenwood Cemetery, Brooklyn, New York.

 

 

[jagjetta]

That is an amazing attribution!

[sundance]

I'm piggybacking on this thread because I've always wanted one of these basket hilt swords and I saw one in a local shop that looked just like the one shown ( except it's not named). The prices I've seen in the past have always stopped me in my tracks. The one at the shop was $650. That may still be out of reach at present but I thought I'd check with the group here to get anyone's thoughts who cared to comment. Everything I've seen in the past is easily double that price. The local one has a nice 32inch blade, the fabric guard liner also in good shape and a scabbard - it's complete. Any comments are welcome.

[SARGE]

I'm piggybacking on this thread because I've always wanted one of these basket hilt swords and I saw one in a local shop that looked just like the one shown ( except it's not named). The prices I've seen in the past have always stopped me in my tracks. The one at the shop was $650. That may still be out of reach at present but I thought I'd check with the group here to get anyone's thoughts who cared to comment. Everything I've seen in the past is easily double that price. The local one has a nice 32inch blade, the fabric guard liner also in good shape and a scabbard - it's complete. Any comments are welcome.

 

Sundance,

 

These basket hilt Highland swords have always cost a premium. If the sword you saw is an old sword (like the one shown here) I think that is a very good price. If a new sword, or a reproduction, not so good a price IMHO. For instance, if the sword you are looking at is an older Wilkinson they are re-searchable by the serial number.

[sundance]

Thanks Sarge. I'm sure I could get hoodwinked but I trust the person selling and he knows swords. The sword has the same cypher - Queen Victoria I guess as per kanemono.

[sundance]

I'd like to ask another question. Like the one in this thread, the one I'm looking at has no maker's name that I can find. Again, as is the case with the one in the thread, the one I'm looking at has a proved slug that has a "T." in the center and " Proved" in an arc above it. you can see it in the first photo. Would that indicate any particular maker? Thank you for any help.

[Horseclover]

I'd like to ask another question. Like the one in this thread, the one I'm looking at has no maker's name that I can find. Again, as is the case with the one in the thread, the one I'm looking at has a proved slug that has a "T." in the center and " Proved" in an arc above it. you can see it in the first photo. Would that indicate any particular maker? Thank you for any help.

A Thurkle blade, likely later than the ACW.

[Horseclover]

I wanted to add that Edward Thurkle was son to Benjamin, who died in 1864. The Benjamin swords are associated with a star in the disc and the T with Edward. Of course a Victoria cypher would be 1876 at the latest. There are at least two variations of the T plugs.

[sundance]

Thanks for the information Horseclover. Much appreciated..

[sundance]

Horseclover - I understand that Victoria was Queen from 1837 to 1901. Is your mention of 1876 correct? Thanks again for your input.

[Horseclover]

Horseclover - I understand that Victoria was Queen from 1837 to 1901. Is your mention of 1876 correct? Thanks again for your input.

Probably not correct. A senior moment yanked off bad data. It was 1876 hen she also became an empress (danged wiki blurbs and it looked wrong when I read it as well).

 

At any rate, if you search out Edward Thurkle lore, some dates for Benjamin and Edward

copied from oldswords.com (lots of Thurkle before and after 1766>)

England London Thurkle, Benjamin 1836 1864 104 High Holborn England London Thurkle, Edward 1864 200 High Holborn England London Thurkle, Edward 1865 1875 104 High Holborn England London Thurkle, Edward 1876 1899 5 Denmark St, Soho

and some notes from a bio and a thread from SFI re Gaunt

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?93894-Edward-Thurkle-Trading-dates

http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/antique-swords-uk/articles/thurkle/

 

I've an old elder Edward Thurkle 1790s eagle but not really relevant to the topic.

 

Over a hot fireplace or in a fire. Cleaned up a bit now.

 

I hope that soothes my 1876 blunder

 

Cheers

GC

[sundance]

Horseclover, I always look forward to and appreciate your input. There are several people here ( you, Sarge and some others) that I love to see answering when I have a question. That 1790's saber is a beauty, singed or not. Is there a maker's mark on that sword or can you tell it's a Thurkle just by its features?

[kanemono]

GC

Beautiful early eagle head sword. I love those "chicken head" swords. Thanks for sharing.

Dick

[sundance]

Kanemono - good to see you back in the loop. It was your basket hilt that first caught my attention. I'll repeat that it's a beauty. Would you have a pic of the grip you could post. Your basket hilt is identical to the one I'm looking at (except yours has some initials and an amazing history attached to it). I believe they are referred ta as Model 1828's. I'd just like to see if the grips match. Thanks.

[Horseclover]

The Thurkle eagle, some marked and others not, all follow the exact casting and actually used as an embossed frontispiece of the first edition Mowbray eagle. Francis Thurkle was the generation of my example and some show the FT under the guard. Some don't.

 

Ed Hicks has one of these

 

 

England , London, Thurkle, Francis 1766-1786 Great New St Sq, Fetter Lane
England, London, Thurkle, Francis 1786-1789 Great New St, Shoe Lane
England, London, Thurkle & Son 1790-1791 Great New St, Shoe Lane
England, London, Thurkle, Francis 1791-1801 Great New St, Shoe Lane

 

Cheers

GC

[reschenk]

Here is my Francis Thurkle eagle head. Pretty close to Glen's, but has a double scroll design inside counterguard vice a diamond. It does have the sunken "FT" cartouche.

 

 

 

[Horseclover]

Ed's has just a circle in the counterguard. There is a gallery on photobucket out there. Perhaps he'll chime in.