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My Grandfathers Dress Jacket


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#1 RememberThe5thESB

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 07:33 PM

Originally my grandfather enlisted in 1963, he trained at Fort Knox, Kentucky. He was the driver of an M48 Patton tank, although he was trained to do both jobs of the gunner and loader. He often talks about pushing down trees with the big hunk of steel, and all the weapons he trained with.
Best of all being how his drill instructer demanded their boots be so bright and polished that it would be like a diamond in a goat's a**hole.
While originally being armored, he was sent over seas to South Korea, there he was instead put into the ranks of the Infantry, particularly the "Big Red One". He stayed there more or less as a border patrol, most stories he tells involve how jokes and cigarette trades. There he stayed for the entirety of 1963, returning home in 1964. I don't know much about his service, as it seems he can't quite remember! But this is what I have, and I'm perfectly fine with that.Posted ImagePosted Image

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#2 oakleaf777

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 09:53 PM

Looks like its in good hands now. Nice that the story of your grandfathers service will be accompanied by this tangible piece of history. Thanks for sharing.

#3 Linedoggie

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 07:45 AM

1st Infantry Division never served in South Korea, it served in West Germany, South Vietnam, and Fort Riley Kansas.



#4 RememberThe5thESB

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 01:11 PM

1st Infantry Division never served in South Korea, it served in West Germany, South Vietnam, and Fort Riley Kansas.

Well, I will say he has been having trouble remembering a lot lately. His papers are still with him but I haven't been able to see them. He's gotten a bit wrong about his service before just because he couldn't remember.

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#5 patches

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 05:22 PM

Sounds like he was drafted, but that would be two years not one year, nor did fella's enlist for one year, these being for three years usually in them days, maybe four. Having said that, like Linedoggie stated the 1st Div never served in South Korea, don't think they sent troops to train there either, maybe, not sure, probably not as they were primarily NATO orientated, of course Vietnam started and the 1st Div as we know was sent there.

 

Back then I can think of only army two divisions in this time period that did regularly, namely the 82nd Abn Div and the 25th Div, and then there was the Marines, the 1st Mar Div out from California, and the two on Okinawa, the Army's 173rd Abn Bde (Sep) (after 1963, the year they were formed) and the Marines 3rd Mar Div. In the time period your grandfather was in, the 1st Cavalry Division and the 7th Infantry Division were based permanently in the ROK, and as we see, he has the 1st Infantry Division patch there.

 

If he was an Tank Crewman (1960s MOS 11E) then he may have been in the 1st Div's Armor Battalion, the 1st Bn 69th Armor, or later either the 1st or 2nd Bn's 63rd Armor, or even the 1st Squadron 4th Cavalry, the 1st Div's Recon unit, which did have tanks..


Edited by patches, 18 August 2018 - 05:28 PM.


#6 RememberThe5thESB

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 10:33 AM

I bet that's probably it. Like I said before, he hasn't had the easiest time remembering his service, but I'll definitely talk it over with him so we can comb through the fine details. If anything he has his discharge papers, so we'll see.

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#7 patches

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 04:23 PM

I bet that's probably it. Like I said before, he hasn't had the easiest time remembering his service, but I'll definitely talk it over with him so we can comb through the fine details. If anything he has his discharge papers, so we'll see.

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How long was he in the Army for, you seem to indicate he was in for a year.



#8 RememberThe5thESB

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 05:18 PM

Well as I understand it he was in from 1962, the year he was drafted or joined. Wad over seas in 1963, and I think he came back like I stayed in 1964. I would ask him but we live a state away. I'll see if I can get into contact with him tomorrow and ask again.

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#9 patches

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 06:11 PM

Well as I understand it he was in from 1962, the year he was drafted or joined. Wad over seas in 1963, and I think he came back like I stayed in 1964. I would ask him but we live a state away. I'll see if I can get into contact with him tomorrow and ask again.

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Two years then, a draftee, well the possibility now is he was in South Korea first, either in the 1st Cav or 7th Inf Div's and was reassigned say after a year, and what little time he had left was spent in the 1st Inf Div at Ft Riley Kansas, and this was the unit he was discharged in.



#10 RememberThe5thESB

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 04:41 AM

I really don't know but like I said I'll have to talk to him about it. The one thing I know definitively is that he did originally train as being armored, at Fort Knox. That is the one thing he always talks about his service. As he specifically remembers training in an M48 Patton.


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#11 Martinjmpr

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 08:38 AM

With regard to his crew position, I believe tank crewmen are trained to do every job.  Position from lowest rank to highest in a 4-man tank crew usually went like this:  Loader (lowest rank), Driver, Gunner, Commander.  If the TC (Tank Commander) was incapacitated, the gunner would take over his job.  



#12 Linedoggie

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 09:25 AM

Well, I will say he has been having trouble remembering a lot lately. His papers are still with him but I haven't been able to see them. He's gotten a bit wrong about his service before just because he couldn't remember.

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He could easily have served in South Korea and when rotated home be at Ft Riley KS until he was discharged



#13 RememberThe5thESB

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 10:01 AM

Well, probably won't know exactly until I ask him. So we'll see.

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#14 RememberThe5thESB

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 06:22 PM

I know this is old but I got some new info. Just talked with my grandfather and asked him about what unit he was in etc, as much as I could get from him and as much as he remembered.

He graduated highschool in 1961, volunteered for the draft in 62, and was discharged the summer of 64. He remembers being in the 1st Infantry (maybe battalion? But the SSI is odd.) and being in the 63rd Battallion, he also remembers being stationed at Camp Kaiser, near Uchanee. If anyone could help me maybe piece this together a bit more I would really appreciate it, and give me a idea as to what else to ask. Thank you!

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#15 RememberThe5thESB

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 06:35 PM

Asked some more and he said he was sent back to the states to Ft Riley for 6 months before discharge.

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#16 RememberThe5thESB

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 07:02 PM

Now hes thinking he was in the 31st Infantry, C Company. He also mentioned that while in the states he trained on a M46 Patton (To him a Patton Tank), and in Korea he operated a SPAT. He also said his MOS was armor.

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#17 patches

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 07:44 PM

Now hes thinking he was in the 31st Infantry, C Company. He also mentioned that while in the states he trained on a M46 Patton (To him a Patton Tank), and in Korea he operated a SPAT. He also said his MOS was armor.

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This is a SPAT, the M56 Scorpion, uncertain what units used them, the 173rd Abn Bde (Sep) did but the others? In any event if this vehicle  was used by the 7th Inf Div's 31st Inf, would not be in it's C Company, that a Rifle Company, he seems to have been in at the tail end of the PENTOMIC era, the Battle Group, perhaps they used the M56 in it Combat Support Company, but they seemed to used jeep mounted 106mm Recoilless Riles.



#18 RememberThe5thESB

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 06:00 AM

I really think it comes down to memory at this point. He has a very hard time remembering this stuff now it seems, worse than I expected. But all in all, I don't see a unit that would necessarily make sense for him to have the 1st Infantry patch on his dress jacket.

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#19 Martinjmpr

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Posted 04 November 2018 - 07:30 AM

If you really want to know you can request a copy of his records from the national archives. If he signs a consent form I think you can get copies of everything in the records.


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#20 RememberThe5thESB

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 06:12 PM

Thought I'd bring this one back from the dead if you will, on the last trip to my grandparents I managed to get a photo copy of his discharge papers, they're a bit hard to read as they are photo copies but it explains a whole lot.

His branch/department was the Army AUS Armor (not sure what this is), and it's hard to read but he enlisted 20 Nov 63. He was stationed at fort riley Kansas, where he was part of Company C, 2nd Bt, 63rd Armor. He was then transferred (it seems to have been in May of 64 when it happened) to the USAR Control group (Annual Training) XI US army training. His reserve obligation date was until July of 68. His title was "crewman" (something here called a speciality number as well not sure what that is). He was awarded marksman for rifle, (only badge, commendation etc it seems he got), and ended up as a SP4 (T) E-4 (Specialist rank 4?). In total, his active service was 1 year, 11 months, 9 days, with foreign or overseas service (has USARPAC stamped next to this one, any ideas?) Was 1 year, 0 months, 20 days.

If any explanation for these small acronyms etc could be given it would be appreciated, thanks!

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#21 patches

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:13 PM

Thought I'd bring this one back from the dead if you will, on the last trip to my grandparents I managed to get a photo copy of his discharge papers, they're a bit hard to read as they are photo copies but it explains a whole lot.

His branch/department was the Army AUS Armor (not sure what this is), and it's hard to read but he enlisted 20 Nov 63. He was stationed at fort riley Kansas, where he was part of Company C, 2nd Bt, 63rd Armor. He was then transferred (it seems to have been in May of 64 when it happened) to the USAR Control group (Annual Training) XI US army training. His reserve obligation date was until July of 68. His title was "crewman" (something here called a speciality number as well not sure what that is). He was awarded marksman for rifle, (only badge, commendation etc it seems he got), and ended up as a SP4 (T) E-4 (Specialist rank 4?). In total, his active service was 1 year, 11 months, 9 days, with foreign or overseas service (has USARPAC stamped next to this one, any ideas?) Was 1 year, 0 months, 20 days.

If any explanation for these small acronyms etc could be given it would be appreciated, thanks!

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AUS=Army of the United States, a term with a few meanings over the years, but in this context, a Draftee, an Enltee would be RA, RA=Regular Army

 

 

That  20 November 1963 entry date would have to be wrong in my estimation, by approximately a year off.

 

He serves first in Korea I would think, as his coat he wore home has the 1st Div patch on it rather than the 7th Div.

 

 

USAR Control group (Annual Training) XI US Army Training, this is a Reserve organization back then, we gather for what are called in recent decades as Individual Ready Reservists, these being not active drill reservists, they are not members of an active drilling reserve uit, but are subjected to active duty recall if need be.

 

XI Corps was till 1968 a active army administrative corps in Missouri, St Louis (As opposed to active tactical field Corps, to wit, I Corps, III Corps, V Corps, VII Corps, XVIII Airborne Corps) these ADMIN Corps contained, mostly combat support support units, and occasional combat units, in example Artillery Battalions, these being of the reserve, but they also apparently controlled non active reservists in their geografical areas of command and control.

 

Not sure on his MOS as Crewman, not counting Tank commanders who had different non lettered MOS', the period MOS for these guys was in the 11 Series (11 Series MOS also of course included Infantryman), here 11E Armor Crewman, or 11D Armor Reconnaissance Specialist (that's what Elvis was :D)

 

SP4 (T) E-4, not sure, the (T) may stand for Temporary, though that would be the first time I'm seeing this, normally one see's what was (is?) called a Bowlegged P, (P), this stands for Promotable, though that is seen usually only with senior NCOs and with Officers, meaning they are in there present grade, but are "Promotable" and will be soon enough, this is written thusly, IE Sergent First Class (P)  John Jones, Captain (P) James Jackson etc etc etc.

 

Foreign or overseas service (has USARPAC stamped), USARPAC stands for United States Army Pacific, among thee most highest command organizations in the Army, a Theater Command, all of South Korea, and later Vietnam falls under it's general command and control. Unsure as to why that's listed, normally, Eighth Army would of been listed, Eighth Army the higist command organization in South Korea, the unit that commands and controls the 7th Infantry Division along with all the rest, to include the tactical field corps in the ROK, I Corps.


Edited by patches, 14 March 2019 - 07:13 PM.


#22 RememberThe5thESB

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:41 PM

AUS=Army of the United States, a term with a few meanings over the years, but in this context, a Draftee, an Enltee would be RA, RA=Regular Army
 
 
That  20 November 1963 entry date would have to be wrong in my estimation, by approximately a year off.
 
He serves first in Korea I would think, as his coat he wore home has the 1st Div patch on it rather than the 7th Div.
 
 
USAR Control group (Annual Training) XI US Army Training, this is a Reserve organization back then, we gather for what are called in recent decades as Individual Ready Reservists, these being not active drill reservists, they are not members of an active drilling reserve uit, but are subjected to active duty recall if need be.
 
XI Corps was till 1968 a active army administrative corps in Missouri, St Louis (As opposed to active tactical field Corps, to wit, I Corps, III Corps, V Corps, VII Corps, XVIII Airborne Corps) these ADMIN Corps contained, mostly combat support support units, and occasional combat units, in example Artillery Battalions, these being of the reserve, but they also apparently controlled non active reservists in their geografical areas of command and control.
 
Not sure on his MOS as Crewman, not counting Tank commanders who had different non lettered MOS', the period MOS for these guys was in the 11 Series (11 Series MOS also of course included Infantryman), here 11E Armor Crewman, or 11D Armor Reconnaissance Specialist (that's what Elvis was :D)
 
SP4 (T) E-4, not sure, the (T) may stand for Temporary, though that would be the first time I'm seeing this, normally one see's what was (is?) called a Bowlegged P, (P), this stands for Promotable, though that is seen usually only with senior NCOs and with Officers, meaning they are in there present grade, but are "Promotable" and will be soon enough, this is written thusly, IE Sergent First Class (P)  John Jones, Captain (P) James Jackson etc etc etc.
 
Foreign or overseas service (has USARPAC stamped), USARPAC stands for United States Army Pacific, among thee most highest command organizations in the Army, a Theater Command, all of South Korea, and later Vietnam falls under it's general command and control. Unsure as to why that's listed, normally, Eighth Army would of been listed, Eighth Army the higist command organization in South Korea, the unit that commands and controls the 7th Infantry Division along with all the rest, to include the tactical field corps in the ROK, I Corps.

And here I thought the papers answered my questions... Just got a few new ones! Thanks for the info, I'll have to take another look at the photocopy.

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#23 RememberThe5thESB

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:48 PM

Also, above the Crewman title, in the same box, were the numbers 131.10 Not sure if that means anything? Also, just noticed another date, which above it I could not read the heading. It is as follows. 18 Jul 62. I'm assuming that this was probably his enlistment date as it's under the large category of Service Data, the other date being Personal Data. Sent from my SM-J327V using Tapatalk

Edited by RememberThe5thESB, 14 March 2019 - 07:50 PM.


#24 patches

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 08:53 PM

Can you scan the document?



#25 Martinjmpr

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 07:41 AM

Sounds like you have a copy of his DD-214 (official discharge document.)  If you can scan and post that (redact the SSN if it's on there) it would help us a lot.  You can glean a lot of information from a DD-214.




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