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Lucky D-Bail find


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#26 Grant G.

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 09:39 AM

Moonlight Gecko, I am afraid we still need better pictures. The ones provided thus far are at an angle and too far away from the areas that matter (the loop feet and brazing spots). Please flip the strap out of the way and take close, straight-on, detailed shots of those areas.

#27 [email protected]

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 03:37 PM

Looks fine to me. Nice find.

#28 GeneralCheese

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 06:00 PM

I too do have some concerns... The brass welding reminds me of Kashetta's helmets. Also wonder why they would sew on new straps when all you have to do is reinsert the original ones before welding the loops back on. Someone even put in the effort of repainting them in the field? The loops feet also aren't "right as rain" from what is shown here. It's easy for someone like Kashetta to take a pair of fake loops and hide the wrong feet under a bit of welding. I know these helmets were often passed on to medics and particularly nurses, but without any ID this just raises more concerns. 

 

Not saying the helmet's fake at all but wouldn't be too quick in waving green flags. For all we know this could be Kashetta's doing. 

 

 

Welding the bales back on with chinstraps attached is a nice way to start a fire



#29 RememberThe5thESB

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 06:32 PM

 
 
Welding the bales back on with chinstraps attached is a nice way to start a fire

True but it all depends on the kind of welding. Brazing to my understanding may not cause to big of a blaze as to my understanding it's practically like soldering, the only think I would be worried about catching ablaze is the paint, different kinds of flux or gas could affect that burn greatly.

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#30 RememberThe5thESB

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 06:40 PM

Scratch that actually I'm being really stupid. To braze you'd use a torch, something like oxyacetlyne, or other gas mixtures. The intensity of the flame would definitely burn the straps.
But with it also being a relatively large flame (although the heat would be very concentrated at the point of the weld.) It would practically be like taking a blowtorch to the helmet, along with the paint. Which the more I think about it the more the lack of repaint bothers me. The welder would have to be pretty good to get enough heat to weld the metals together but not so much that large amounts of paint would melt/burn.

What does the outside of the shell by the repaired bail look like? Is it repainted also?

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#31 Moonlight Gecko

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 07:10 PM

Here are some more close ups 

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#32 Moonlight Gecko

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 07:10 PM

2

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#33 Moonlight Gecko

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 07:11 PM

3

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#34 RememberThe5thESB

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 07:25 PM

Interesting. I'm just surprised at the lack of paint on the outside as well, especially considering that the welder melted through the steel on that side. If he was running the torch that long or hot you'd expect to see more distortion in the paint, especially considering there's still cork in those areas, which should have burn off with the paint. The strangest part being that if it was repainted after brazing why are there very visible soot marks around the outside near the bails. Of course there are explanations for this.
Anyways the brazing is a little bit of concern for me but mostly the repaint. To me that's a red flag with how it looks. But other than that it's a great looking shell, I'd just have to see it in hand though for the painting and brazing. I'm a little 50/50 on that but I'm no expert, if anything it was well worth the price for the group.

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#35 Grant G.

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 09:02 PM

Thank you very much for the additional photos, Moonlight. Let me first state, given the circumstances of this helmet's acquisition (seller didn't know what they had and offered it for less than $100) this is likely an original M2 helmet. That said, I don't see anything physically that confirms that opinion for me. As a plus, the heat stamp is in the proper range for an M2 (I owned one a single digit off from yours). The following concerns me about the helmet, though. Firstly, it has been retextured and painted near the weld areas, concealing the repairs (not necessarily something to be concerned about, but it does prevent us from seeing the distance of its original factory welds). One of the loops appears to be replaced with a bent piece of wire and the other loop shows only one of its feet. I personally do not like the shape of that foot, but it may just be the angle the picture was taken. Again, your helmet is likely genuine, but based on what I see, I don't know how I or anyone can say for certain. As for the chinstraps and their field repairs, I see no glaring issues.



#36 Burning Hazard

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 09:20 PM

Don't think those are original re-attached D-bails; they look like wire. That one square foot keeps my head scratching though...

 

Here's a good thread on D-bail feet and brazing for reference:

 

http://www.usmilitar...llection/page-3

 

Pat

 

 



#37 ken88

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 11:38 PM

Hey if it really did come from a veteran, there's nothing to argue about, nice score in that case. It's just that whenever a helmet like this surfaces, you can't help thinking about the many similar helmets that were shown here a while ago. Repairs can be a smart trick of not having to show fake feet like Kashetta did but of course real ones are still out there. If there's undeniable provenance then there's just nothing left to say other than that's a lucky find. Congrats. 



#38 just-a-good-ole-boy

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 05:58 AM

Scratch that actually I'm being really stupid. To braze you'd use a torch, something like oxyacetlyne, or other gas mixtures. The intensity of the flame would definitely burn the straps.
But with it also being a relatively large flame (although the heat would be very concentrated at the point of the weld.) It would practically be like taking a blowtorch to the helmet, along with the paint. Which the more I think about it the more the lack of repaint bothers me. The welder would have to be pretty good to get enough heat to weld the metals together but not so much that large amounts of paint would melt/burn.

What does the outside of the shell by the repaired bail look like? Is it repainted also?

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Every M-2 helmet that I have come across with repaired loops have had the chinstraps field sewn on. There is nothing wrong with this helmet.

 

Steve



#39 RememberThe5thESB

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 08:11 AM

Every M-2 helmet that I have come across with repaired loops have had the chinstraps field sewn on. There is nothing wrong with this helmet.
 
Steve

I wasn't saying I saw anything wrong with the chinstraps being field sewn. I'm just going off the brazing. And like I said earlier it is a good pot, even if I'm just a little bit iffy on it. Sorry if I came across like I was calling it a fake, I'm just more stuck on the entire brazing repair is all.

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#40 Moonlight Gecko

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 04:42 PM

Thanks for the replies, guys. I was definately surprised when I saw it.



#41 Tom Kibler

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 11:19 AM

Every M-2 helmet that I have come across with repaired loops have had the chinstraps field sewn on. There is nothing wrong with this helmet.

 

Steve

 

+1



#42 ccmax

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 08:37 PM

This helmet is a good one.

#43 ccmax

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 08:37 PM

This helmet is a good one.


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