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USMC Banana Wars: Help Dating Photo


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#1 world war I nerd

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 02:08 PM

I just received this photo, which was described as "Marines guarding prisoners, Vera Cruz, Mexico."

 

Based on the fact that the Marines are wearing lift-the-dot cartridge belts and are armed with Enfield rifles and bayonets, the image must date to WWI or maybe post WW I.

 

Written in ink (fountain pen) on the reverse of the postcard is: "Marines guarding prisoners from the fort whom we made do much of our work."

 

Does the inscription provide any clues as to when and where this image was taken?

 

Looking forward to hearing from the hard-core USMC collectors.

 

Thanks for looking. World War I Nerd ...

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  • USMC-with-Prisoners-I.jpg

Edited by world war I nerd, 07 August 2018 - 02:09 PM.


#2 world war I nerd

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 02:10 PM

A closer look at the lift-the-dot cartridge belts ...

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  • USMC-with-Prisoners-III.jpg


#3 world war I nerd

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 02:12 PM

And the Enfield rifles and bayonets and scabbard ...

 

I can't tell if they have lift-the-dot canteen covers or not?

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  • USMC-with-Prisoners-II.jpg


#4 world war I nerd

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 02:14 PM

Reverse of the postcard … Any guesses?

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  • USMC-with-Prisoners-IV.jpg


#5 world war I nerd

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 02:20 PM

I thought It might help if I added a close-up of the men under guard. My guess is that they are Haitian?

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  • USMC-with-Prisoners-V.jpg


#6 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 01:38 AM

My SWAG; Nicaragua (gunports)

#7 bobgee

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 12:45 PM

Vera Cruz, Mexico - 1914 - 



#8 cwnorma

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 01:57 PM

Lift the dot snaps (~1918) and M1917 rifles (also ~1918) and bayonets argue for late 1917 or later.  This photo dates to at least after the Marines received those items.  



#9 Marchville1918

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 06:29 PM

I agree with the comment above. The rifles and web gear indicate 1917 or later. I think the US occupation of Vera Cruz ended before that time. I would think it is either Haiti or Cuba sometime 1918-1920



#10 Dirk

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 03:42 AM

Haiti or Dominican Republic.....with Haiti being the most likely.

Edited by Dirk, 09 August 2018 - 03:43 AM.


#11 mccooper

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 12:48 PM

The USMC incursion into Vera Cruz took place all within the year 1914. However, the USMC occupied the Dominican Republic 1916-1924. Could that be the place?

 

mccooper



#12 Marchville1918

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 03:54 PM

The USMC was involved in the so called "sugar intervention" in Cuba from 1917 to 1922.



#13 jeb137

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 05:26 PM

My two cents is Haiti or Dominican Republic.    The prisoners don't look (to me) like any pictures I've seen of Vera Cruz.  

 

Jon B.

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#14 world war I nerd

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 06:06 AM

Thanks for everybody's swags, two cents, opinions and other thoughts.

 

Vera Cruz has definitely been ruled out. However, Haiti, the Dominican Republic (which was my second guess), Cuba & Nicaragua, all still seem to be viable locations for this photo.

 

I was hoping that the "fort" reference might be a clue to anyone who knows the history of these small USMC campaigns, interventions & expeditions better than I do.

 

Teufelhunde.ret., recognized the triangular shaped openings in the wall behind the Marines and prisoners as "gunports", which, of course would be located in a fortification of some sort.

 

Does anyone know if there was a fort in Nicaragua taken, occupied or otherwise used by U.S. Marines as he suggested?



#15 BEAST

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 12:33 PM

You probably already know this, but in the DR, the Marines captured Fortaleza ar San Francisco de Macoris. Here is a Marine publication about their service there from 1926-1924. Maybe itll provide some other clues. I was trying to find the triangular shaped firing ports.

https://www.marines....0-11-164044-497

#16 BEAST

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 03:49 PM

You probably already know this, but in the DR, the Marines captured Fortaleza ar San Francisco de Macoris. Here is a Marine publication about their service there from 1926-1924. Maybe itll provide some other clues. I was trying to find the triangular shaped firing ports.

https://www.marines....0-11-164044-497


Sorry, its supposed to read 1916-1924.

#17 world war I nerd

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 03:29 AM

Good work Beast, thanks for the link. I read through most of it and discovered that the provincial capital cities in the Dominican Republic featured something called a "Fortaleza". Printed on page 26, was the following definition of a Fortaleza:

 

Each Dominican provincial capital contains a Fortaleza, a stone built square enclosure, usually with a single ornamented entrance gate. The Fortaleza contains a barracks, offices, an armory, and sometimes a prison and functions as the political as well as military center of provincial government.

 

Based on the above text and the photo below, from the same publication, It's a pretty good guess that the image I posted was taken at an unknown Dominican Fortaleza with prison facilities that had been occupied by U.S. Marines.

 

Thanks to all for sounding off.

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  • Fortoleza-Image.jpg

Edited by world war I nerd, 12 August 2018 - 03:33 AM.



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