Airborne-Hunter Posted July 22, 2018 Share #1 Posted July 22, 2018 A friend of mine recently found this group of stuff, but it has me somewhat confused. The man enlisted in 1925 at 20 years of age and stayed until 1947 or 48. His discharge record states his rank as aviation metalsmith chief, but he has an early navy pilot wing and the leather name tag also has a pilot wing. Does this make sense? Can someone explain how he has a pilot wing? Also haven't figured out the Cap badge either. Thanks ABN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodes Posted July 22, 2018 Share #2 Posted July 22, 2018 Aren't those navy aircrew wings on both sides of the name tag?.....Do you know for sure all the insignia came from one person?....Bodes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodes Posted July 22, 2018 Share #3 Posted July 22, 2018 Aren't those navy aircrew wings on both sides of the name tag?.....Do you know for sure all the insignia came from one person?....Bodes In fact, one of the ribbon bars is European theater while another I'm thinking is Pacific...Have air medal ribbon bar too....Bodes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne-Hunter Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share #4 Posted July 22, 2018 Aren't those navy aircrew wings on both sides of the name tag?.....Do you know for sure all the insignia came from one person?....Bodes In fact, one of the ribbon bars is European theater while another I'm thinking is Pacific...Have air medal ribbon bar too....Bodes The name tag says "AMSC" which according to his discharge (not shown) is Aviation Metalsmith Chief. The name tag has a pilot wing. The man enlisted in 1925. The aircrew wing is a little out of the norm, but conceivable.However, it did not come into existence until 1943. The Air medal came in 1942. The Air Medal is award for "meritorious aerial achievement," ostensibly something he may not have qualified for at anytime, let alone post 1942. Navy personnel very frequently are seen with both ETO and Asiatic medals. My grandfather even received both serving in the Army, while somewhat unusual, not at all outside of the ordinary. I have a photo of the man in China with a date of 1927 - presumably where the Yangtze comes from. Under that impression the 2nd Nic. also stands as likely correct. And either of these or another event could be the cause for the expeditionary. Therefore all the ribbons can be assumed correct. The discharge does not list his awards and does not appear to provide a full list of service. 1946-48 roughly he worked at NAS Alameda and the air crew wings could come from here. The question still stands - where could the pilot wing come from? I doubt demotion. I also find it hard to believe an enlisted aircrew person would be allowed to wear a pilot wing (pre creation of the air crew wing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mghcal Posted July 23, 2018 Share #5 Posted July 23, 2018 It's odd. That's definitely an early 20s-30s wing in what looks like the Robbins pattern. Do you have a photo of the back? The one thing that seems plausible to me is that he had some type of health issue to lose his aviator rating but that wasn't severe enough to lose his flight status. Do you have his full name you can share? The USN records online should give you some idea if you look in the late 20s early 30s directories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightpath Posted July 23, 2018 Share #6 Posted July 23, 2018 I think that a bit too much might be being read into a retired sailors collection. The winged name patch with 'RET' was probably purchased to show that he had served in the NAS. He could have picked up other items just as keepsakes. My grandfather gave me some air force pilot wings but his rank during WW2 was only airmen.... he was proud of his service and had a small collection.... It's probably that simple. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne-Hunter Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share #7 Posted July 23, 2018 It's odd. That's definitely an early 20s-30s wing in what looks like the Robbins pattern. Do you have a photo of the back? The one thing that seems plausible to me is that he had some type of health issue to lose his aviator rating but that wasn't severe enough to lose his flight status. Do you have his full name you can share? The USN records online should give you some idea if you look in the late 20s early 30s directories. The make is Lang on the wing. Health complications could be an issue - I did find two references to Naval hospital stays, but they are very late. C l a r e n c e Virgil McDonald. I can't find him in the any of the records. I was looking his separation form again and I noticed the rates of ACM (AA) and ACM(PA), but I'm not sure what the AA and PA stand for. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Ragan Posted July 23, 2018 Share #8 Posted July 23, 2018 Did anyone consider that he may have been an enlisted pilot at some point in is Navy career? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted July 23, 2018 Share #9 Posted July 23, 2018 I believe the AA and PA stand for Aviation Apprentice and Permanent Appointment, respectively. Since he clearly had a career as an aviation type specialist in the USN, it is possible that he got some training as a pilot (or was associated with one of the USN flight schools and picked up a wing that way. He isn't listed in my book, Contact, which lists most of the Naval and USMC aviators trained up until about WWII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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