USTC Summer Service Coat & Service Hat

[Sarge8]

Grandfather's jacket, hat and pack

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sarge8]

Sorry for the out of order pictures. Not having a lot of luck in posts today.

 

This is the grandfather's uniform jacket (WW1), his pack front and back, and his hat. Note strange hat cord- red, white and blue. Maybe worn for victory parade?? Or is it a Boy Scout hat- no labels?

 

Comments?

 

Frank

[Major Z]

A search engine check for hat cord colors shows this red/white/blue is for Reserve Officer Training Camps. That's all I found on it but it's worth researching further.

[everforward]

A search engine check for hat cord colors shows this red/white/blue is for Reserve Officer Training Camps. That's all I found on it but it's worth researching further.

 

Yes, either ROTC or CMTC (Citizen Military Training Camp).......

 

[everforward]

What was his name, and is there any other info like when he was born/died..? What unit he served in..? Where did he live......

 

Here's the thing: From the pics that were posted, the coat is devoid of any insignia at all, no discharge stripe, no overseas stripe etc....that's not to say that it all wasn't removed at some point or his service was all within the USA and not part of the AEF......

 

With some more info I might be able to set you on the trail, at the very least......

[Sarge8]

Ah- good catch, Major Z and Everforward! I checked on Geneaolgybank.com and found an article from 12 Aug 1917 that this man (daughter doesn't want the name out there on the web) was one of 92 tagged for the Officer's Training Camp at Plattsburgh, NY. I can say that he was born and died in NH. 1892-1975.

 

She did not have any other uniforms, but thinks she might have a picture of him in uniform. She was in the process of moving, so I hope she finds it. Interestingly, he did not claim veteran status on the 1930 census. Maybe he washed out for physical reasons and was never drafted. Will do some more digging. There was no obit on the web site.

 

Thanks for the info about the hat cord! At least I know it wasn't a Boy Scout hat.

[Sarge8]

Link to to information about Plattsburgh Camps and rosters. My man is listed in 3rd Company, 17th Provisonal Training Camp.

 

http://www.newrivernotes.com/topical_history_ww1_trainingcamps_plattsburhtmgnewyork.

[RustyCanteen]

From "Special Regulations No. 41; REGULATIONS FOR THE UNIFORMS OF THE UNITED STATES ARMY 1917".

 

[Sarge8]

Thanks, RustyCanteen!

 

No sign of the "Badge" on the sleeve or brown braid. Would the "U.S.T.C." collar ornament have been the round button type twith the screw back or straight line letters like officers wore?

 

Frank

[world war I nerd]

The absence of service, wound or discharge chevrons on the service coat does not necessarily mean that the man in question did not serve overseas with the AEF.

 

The cotton service coat was not a part of the uniform of the AEF. As such, cotton service coats & cotton breeches were, for the most part, not worn in France. Cotton service dress was, however, pretty much, the standard uniform worn while training in the U.S. Before shipping overseas, practically all of the troops were ordered to turn in their khaki cotton uniforms. These were replaced by new olive drab uniforms for service in France.

 

In general, the only cotton uniforms with service, wound or discharge chevrons are found primarily on the cotton service coats that were issued (instead of woolen service coats) to returning Doughboys who arrived in the U.S. during the summer months of 1919.

 

It's quite possible that the service coat posted was the coat the man wore during his training prior to shipping out for France, which at that time would have had no insignia. It's also possible that the man's training took place during October or November of 1918, and that the end of the war prevented him from being sent overseas … Thus the absence of any AEF insignia.

 

The "pack", or knapsack, appears to be a variation of the 1910 Clothing Bag that was issued to all new recruits to the U.S. Army. These lightweight knapsacks were intended to carry all the articles that were issued during the first few days of military service or until the recruit was issued a 1910 Haversack & Pack Carrier, 1912 Ration Bags, a barracks bag, or until such time he was assigned to a permanent barracks where he might have access to a locker or trunk in which he would then store his gear. I believe, but have no data to back up this assertion up, that the Clothing Bags were deemed unnecessary by the Army and phased out sometime in 1917, because very few of them seem to turn up in the possessions of WW I soldiers.

 

Attached is an image cropped from a larger photo of "Company E, 8th Training Regiment at Rest". Judging by the age of the men depicted in the photo, I believe that these men were training to be officers. Because they have yet to complete their training, they are not yet officers and therefore were not yet entitled to wear the officers' cuff braid on the sleeves of their service coats.

 

Anyway … note the red, white and blue hatcords on their campaign hats.

[world war I nerd]

Full Image of Company E, 8th Training Regiment circa 1917

[Sarge8]

Guess it's this one?

 

[everforward]

The absence of service, wound or discharge chevrons on the service coat does not necessarily mean that the man in question did not serve overseas with the AEF.

 

The cotton service coat was not a part of the uniform of the AEF. As such, cotton service coats & cotton breeches were, for the most part, not worn in France. Cotton service dress was, however, pretty much, the standard uniform worn while training in the U.S. Before shipping overseas, practically all of the troops were ordered to turn in their khaki cotton uniforms. These were replaced by new olive drab uniforms for service in France.

 

In general, the only cotton uniforms with service, wound or discharge chevrons are found primarily on the cotton service coats that were issued (instead of woolen service coats) to returning Doughboys who arrived in the U.S. during the summer months of 1919.

 

It's quite possible that the service coat posted was the coat the man wore during his training prior to shipping out for France, which at that time would have had no insignia. It's also possible that the man's training took place during October or November of 1918, and that the end of the war prevented him from being sent overseas Thus the absence of any AEF insignia..

 

Yes, I totally agree. In my own research I am hardly ever looking past what was happening with the 29th Division or the 116th, and this was my train of thought when posing the questions. Most of those soldiers did wear the summer-weight uniforms once back in the USA and mustering out of the Army.

[Sarge8]

Thanks, World war 1 Nerd.

 

He definitely went to Plattsburgh in Aug 1917, but after that I don't know. Will keep digging. If daughter finds the photo, that may help.

 

He had a wife and 2 year old in 1917 and worked as an auditor for the city. May have gotten a deferment.

[world war I nerd]

If he was at Plattsburg in August of 1917, then he most likely was headed for the AEF. Unless of course he was found to be unfit for service during the course of his training.

 

There were a multitude of reasons for a recruit to be classified as unfit. Being diagnosed with having venereal or heart disease were the two most common reasons for being rejected from the Army.

 

There were also a host of other reasons, such as not having the required number of teeth, having flat feet, being addicted to drugs or alcohol, being to young or too old, being mentally unfit, having a physical disability, or even being of German descent, to name a few. Also being the sole provider for siblings, parents or children or having a profession that was deemed critical to the war effort were prominent reasons.

 

Yes, the USTC collar disc was the most likely disc to have been worn while training. It also was not unusual for recruits to not have any collar discs or only one disc (usually the U.S disc) depending on the availability of the correct discs while training. I could easily post 25 or more photos of men in the training camps without any collar discs.