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GENERAL OFFICER'S VISOR 1930s/40s


Jamecharles
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Jamecharles

Good day Sirs,

 

I've recently purchased this amazing and peculiar general officer visor, due to his particular decorations I'm wandering if anyone can spot an original photo of a general who is wearing it!
Any help in find the original owner of this Visor will be really appreciated.

 

thanks all!

 

Giancarlo

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Jamecharles

Great and quite unusual G.O hat having the bullion bands above and below the oak leaves.

Yep, for this reason I believe it would be easy spot it on original photos

 

Gs

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The bullion on the visor and band do not match in wear, tarnish, or pattern, and is not centered to the visor or the eagle.

 

Here's my theory: The cap band was removed from a heavily damaged general's cap, sewn on to a dress blue field grade cap, and the additional gold bands were added to cover that up. The seller is a well known faker who buys ribbons and insignia and dresses up otherwise routine uniforms into highly decorated officers, including generals and admirals, with great frequency since 2011 according to this thread: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/99751-please-tell-me-no-one-on-here-is-bidding-on-this-9thaausmc/.

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The band seems pretty sloppily sewn together in the back, I thought the addition gold bands seemed odd. There were few generals who had speciality made visors

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I think this hat was discussed when he posted it on eBay?

 

If it was, I missed it. I could be way off and am eager to hear what others have to say. I have seen US issue caps with bullion centering problems before (probably own a few too), but this is a shady eBay dealer and anything he sells will be heavily scrutinized.

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Jamecharles

It's not ''bad''!

It's incredible how people judge without taking care of all details ....
The visor was clearly made in late 30s and than modified in 40s, this explain the different oxidation of the gold bullion.

The gold oaks on the velvet were not applied but they were directly embroidered on his original hat band (infantry branch) and it's clearly old, here below details of the hat bands. It's obviously an incredible tailor work made during ww2 or MAYBE after (but I'm more certain about 40s period for many reasons).

My opinion: is a good Gen. officer's visor, probably he decided to upgrade his dress visor to a General officer visor when he was promoted to the rank of gen., obviously using the old one he had. Saving money during war period was a normal procedure for EVERYONE, you might be surprised in see how they devised every sort of sartorial stratagem to save money.
I still remember with extreme clarity an artillery colonel's shoulder straps which was promoted to general, and to avoid an expensive pair of new BG shoulder boards and save money, he decided to add velvet with the stars sewn on, to the old shoulder pads.

If you believe it's strange.... well, was not so uncommon (expecially during 40s period when those uniforms were not mandatory anymore since beginning of ww2)

Those fancy habits were done many times during the ww2 period, and believe me or not Generals some times were more niggardly than the common officers.

 

GS

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I find it odd that instead of buying a new visor a general, being one of the highest ranks would just have the oak leaves applied over a standard Officers dress visor

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Jamecharles

Here another example of "odd" general habits to save money.
(Those are the gen officer board's Mentioned before )

 

... point out to fake what one does not know does not mean to be right! ;)

GS

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Jamecharles

Arrows shown the under original red artillery shoulder boards weared on his blue dress before tailor work.

GS

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Well, I'm glad you're happy with your purchase. I personally wouldn't do business with that seller regardless of what he was selling, but that's just me. Caveat emptor.

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CNY Militaria

If you dont want people to offer opinions on the cap then you shouldnt have posted it on the forum. I agree with the other comments thus far, and being from this seller casts further doubt on it. Anything coming from his hands should and will always be considered suspect. Surely if this was the real deal, a photo of it in use would exist. If youre happy with the though, thats all that matters.

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Also I find the selling price odd, seems quite low considering the going rate for a pre war generals visor cap

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tsakers85

I personally don't believe the cap is fake.

 

The bullion embroidery on the band has age to it and having worked with suppliers that produce bullion embroidery, this type of one off embroidery is highly uncommon for someone wanting to fake a cap. Additionally, the laurel leaves are inside the bullion border of the cap band, thus making them smaller in width than standard laurel leaves produced today and available from suppliers like Marlow & White.

 

What I do believe is that this cap may have been in service as a band uniform of some kind at some point.

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I find it odd that instead of buying a new visor a general, being one of the highest ranks would just have the oak leaves applied over a standard Officers dress visor

 

Keep in mind the hat is from the era of the Great Depression. Money was tight. And generals could design their own uniforms.

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Well maybe you got the one good item this seller has sold, but any item from someone who has a 12-page, 276 post thread documenting over seven years of fakery is going to raise some questions.

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The seller certainly has some shady looking stuff. (just looked over his listings). However, he currently has some early stuff, some of which looks ok. This general's mess dress appears to be of the same era as the cap in question (same guy?):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Named-Brigadier-General-Evening-Dress-Jacket-and-Pants-Adj-General-US-Army/263663401228?hash=item3d6390390c:g:NjIAAOSwrhha13ML

 

I understand the points everyone brings up about the seller, but it's possible this hat is ok. Can't figure what he would have gotten out of adding the bullion tape bands to otherwise good-looking G.O. oak leaves.

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Might also add that the rank in the BG mess dress jacket is colonel. So, the cap may have also been upgraded from a Field Grade Officer. And that name in the jacket, could provide a clue on the owner of the cap. (tough to read though)

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The seller claims it is this man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Alexander_Ulio

 

That link states he was the Assistant Adjutant General of the US Army - the Mess Dress does have the AG branch insignia on the cuff.

 

Looks like a legit uniform to me. And I think the hat was his Note that the cap center band was repurposed from an infantry blue branch band - per the link above, he was previoulsy an infantry officer.

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tsakers85

Im not sure this cap belongs to that tailcoat. But that tailcoat looks like a genuine GO uniform to me. As to whether it is correctly IDd, I dont know.

 

I do own a GO uniform that the general purchased as an Army lieutenant and had retailored to an Air Force general.

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