My latest acquisition: A "Not a UDT Knife"

[usmce4]

I don't know what else to call it.

When I started collecting KABARS (exactly one year ago this month) one of the first on my list was a knife I saw in the Silvey book, he called it a "UDT Knife". When I started researching it I found a 2010 thread on here that referred me to a Frank T. "Knife Knotes" article that spilled the beans on these as being no such thing so I just scratched it off my list.

Last week I noticed one on ebay with very poor pictures - out of curiosity I PM'd the seller and he gave me a good verbal description. For the heck of it I made him an offer of about half of what a real MK2 in that condition would go for and he took it.

From what I read in the 2010 thread I know a lot of you guys had these and dumped them when Frank uncovered their true lineage, but I'm glad I got it - I think it's a beautiful knife. I wish I could take some pics that would do it justice.

Three interesting things I'd like to point out on this one - 1) The "KA-BAR" is barely crossed out - it's very legible 2) Look at the tang. It is pinned, but appears to be a recycled peened one. 3) The knife measures 12 1/16th inches tip to tip.

Oh, and it's definitely plated, not just polished.

Hope you don't mind my posting it.

Art

 

[usmce4]

2

[usmce4]

Note how legible the "KA-BAR" is even though it's lightly crossed out.

[usmce4]

Here's the tang...... DEFINATELY looks like it was peened at one time.

Thanks for looking

Art

PS - The two white dots on the pommel appear to be paint (splatter?)

[doyler]

Great looking knife Art...one of the best condition I have seen.

 

No matter what they call it or it is its part of the history of the knife pattern and has a place in a collection.

 

I have one.Bought it years ago when I was at a local auction.

 

Well done and enjoy

[doyler]

I notice yours has a fuller in the blade.Mine doesn't.

 

Some do some don't

 

Just one more anomaly of this series of knives.

[usmce4]

Great looking knife Art...one of the best condition I have seen.

 

No matter what they call it or it is its part of the history of the knife pattern and has a place in a collection.

 

I have one.Bought it years ago when I was at a local auction.

 

Well done and enjoy

Thanks Ron. After reading the history of these I was wondering if I was throwing my money out. But as soon as I opened the package I knew it was going to be another of my favorites. The blade is so shiny I can't get a good picture of it. It would go great with a set of Dress Blues if only it said "USMC" rather than "USN"

 

Art

 

[KRIS FORD]

That was THIS one Art:

Now that's a FAT handle!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-USMC-MK2-Mark-II-KA-BAR-fighting-knife-unusual-handle-orig-leather-scabbard/401516738187?hash=item5d7c43368b:g:r64AAOSwEBpawp1q

 

Yours is MUCH nicer.

 

FWIW..EVERY UDT pic I've seen has been a straight grooved handle MK2..

[KRIS FORD]

ANd of course, the one listed as such..

Guard is XX'd out more extremely..(because although when it's CLEARLY stamped USN MK2...you wouldn't want the enemy to know who the manufacturer was in case you were captured on the beach..

 

Even before I saw Frank's articles on them..I didn't think they were UDT anything..EVERYTHING I had ever seen, pics, reading, talking to actual SEALs..it was just a good ol MK2.

[KRIS FORD]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-WW2-KA-BAR-KABAR-U-D-T-MK2-MKII-USN-Navy-Combat-Fighting-Knife-w-Scabbard/142730947667?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

[usmce4]

ANd of course, the one listed as such..

Guard is XX'd out more extremely..(because although when it's CLEARLY stamped USN MK2...you wouldn't want the enemy to know who the manufacturer was in case you were captured on the beach..

 

Even before I saw Frank's articles on them..I didn't think they were UDT anything..EVERYTHING I had ever seen, pics, reading, talking to actual SEALs..it was just a good ol MK2.

 

[SKIPH]

Art- Thanks for showing! It is a real beauty. Sooner or later I'll find one for my collection. SKIP

[Charlie Flick]

Here is an even earlier thread from 2007 on these fantasy knives.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/2812-the-udt-knifefact-or-fantasy/

 

(As an aside, in reading that thread I was struck by the fact the 3 of the prominent Members posting there, Craig Pickrall, Greg Robinson and Gary Cunningham, are all now deceased. Another reminder that life is fleeting, but the information they collected and posted on our Forum remains available for the benefit of future collectors.)

 

Regards,

Charlie

[KRIS FORD]

Here's a doozy..a Robeson version..

 

Maybe the handle was gross and someone turned it down a lathe?

THEN there is this one:

Just listed as a MK2...but for only $395...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/USN-MK2-COMBAT-KNIFE-USN-MK2-NORD-8114-SCABBARD-WW2/232738916597?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

 

 

I do think they are cool knives..absolutely! But the prices are wack!!

 

I'd TOTALLY snag one like you did on the cheap!

[KRIS FORD]

Frank T sure sums it up well in the article "Military Minutia" in the May 2013 Knife World:

 

"Weske “UDT” Knives

“Sanssouci” marked knives were made by Weske Cutlery Co. located in Sandusky, Ohio. Weske was in business from circa 1946 to 1952. The majority of knives I have seen were made from surplus military models purchased from Ka-Bar, Boker, Case, Queen and Camillus among others. The Mark 2-like models can be found with the ricassos removed or with the guards overstamped to eliminate the original manufacturer’s name. If the surplus blade was originally a blade-marked model, then the ricasso was removed by grinding the tang longer. You’ll note that on the knives without a ricasso the stacked leather grip is typically longer by this amount. On knives that were originally guard-marked, the guards were overstamped or new guards were made with the Sanssouci marking applied in an oval. Pommels were installed and pinned in place with a short length of pin stock or the tangs were peened to hold them in place, depending on the type of pommel used. Sometimes both methods were used on one knife. Weske was located next door to a chrome plating shop so many knives were plated as well. They did not have a hafting machine so grips were not grooved like the original military models were.

Weske produced the knives we collectors call, incorrectly I might add, UDT knives. They advertised knives with and without blood grooves, imagine that. Neither the Sanssouci marked nor the so called UDT knives were connected with the military in any way; they were sold as hunting knives by Weske Cutlery Co."

 

(did I get the quote right Frank? )

[kwill]

We seem to have parallel threads running on these "not UDT" knives. I wonder if a Mod could combine them.