Picked up some UNIS marked gear today

[WWII_GI]

Purchased a collection of UNIS marked gear today. Interestingly most of it is Army pattern gear marked to 4th Marine division tank battalions. Supposedly all the 911 marked gear came together as a group, pretty neat to see some later war gear making it overseas, one canteen cover is dated 1944 and the carbine pouch is dated 1945, the bandage pouch is undated but was likely made in 44 or 45. Any ideas what the large bag is? I was told it was a tank map bag. There is a last name (TORO) on the bottom of the 911 marked canteen cover.

 

Thanks for looking!

 

-Steven

 

[WWII_GI]

[WWII_GI]

[robinb]

The large bag is a document pouch for a vehicle. But it's post WW2 by many years.

[WWII_GI]

The large bag is a document pouch for a vehicle. But it's post WW2 by many years.

 

Hmm now that's odd, now this has me worried. Supposedly this stuff was picked up over the past 20 so years at gun shows in California.

[Blacksmith]

There's a couple of other things that make me uncomfortable. A 1945 magazine pouch UNIS marked? Never seen that. Supply chain being what it is, could a pouch get made in 1945, put in theater, and used by the end of hostilities (March 1945)?

 

Also don't recognize that stencil as being USMC - I know there was some variation, but that one is alien to me.

 

The large bag is a document pouch for a vehicle. But it's post WW2 by many years.

[WWII_GI]

There's a couple of other things that make me uncomfortable. A 1945 magazine pouch UNIS marked? Never seen that. Supply chain being what it is, could a pouch get made in 1945, put in theater, and used by the end of hostilities (March 1945)?

 

Also don't recognize that stencil as being USMC - I know there was some variation, but that one is alien to me.

 

 

That is true, but I have seen at least a few 1944/45 Dated M43 shovel covers that had UNIS marks. So there is a chance that later war gear made it overseas.

 

Also, UNIS markings were usually painted on gear in preparation for landing, so it is possible that the later war gear was painted up in preparation for another landing. I have a grouping from a guy who made it overseas too late to see any action but all his gear has been UNIS marked.

 

The Carbine pouch and the bag stood out to me as odd. I wanted to see what some other guys though about them. Also note that the same stencil was used on all the 911 gear except the Army pattern canteen cover. This is just confusing me more and more...

 

-Steven

[Blacksmith]

The fact that all the stenciling looks identical to the vehicle document pouch, and that is reportedly many years post-war, is a red flag to me. And, found over the course of 20 years, and all stenciled the same?

[WWII_GI]

The fact that all the stenciling looks identical to the vehicle document pouch, and that is reportedly many years post-war, is a red flag to me. And, found over the course of 20 years, and all stenciled the same?

 

From what I understand from the seller the 911 belt, canteen covers, and the bandage pouch came together as a set from a guy at a gun show who believed they were his uncles. The rest of the gear was picked up elsewhere. The seller also did have a few other items that I did not purchase and had sold some prior.

 

-Steven

[Blacksmith]

Right, which is why the "911" stencil matching all the rest of the gear is an issue.

 

And the document pouch having the 4th MARDIV patch painted on it is non-starter. The whole purpose of UNIS was to keep the Japanese from identifying what Marine units were in their area. So painting your unit patch above the UNIS number is ridiculous.

 

So, the core of the gear is the 911-stenciled stuff, which is spurious; and, the stencil and application match the rest of the gear - which supposedly was pieced together over two decades.

 

 

 

 

From what I understand from the seller the 911 belt, canteen covers, and the bandage pouch came together as a set from a guy at a gun show who believed they were his uncles. The rest of the gear was picked up elsewhere. The seller also did have a few other items that I did not purchase and had sold some prior.

 

-Steven

[Cap Camouflage Pattern I]

Yeah seems very sketchy to me, gets me worried.

[WWII_GI]

Right, which is why the "911" stencil matching all the rest of the gear is an issue.

 

And the document pouch having the 4th MARDIV patch painted on it is non-starter. The whole purpose of UNIS was to keep the Japanese from identifying what Marine units were in their area. So painting your unit patch above the UNIS number is ridiculous.

 

So, the core of the gear is the 911-stenciled stuff, which is spurious; and, the stencil and application match the rest of the gear - which supposedly was pieced together over two decades.

 

 

 

 

I see what you mean, should have realized this deal might have been too good to be true. Im stumped on this stuff, Ive really got no idea if its all fake or what, Ill go talk to the seller and see if I can get more information.

 

Thanks for the help guys, if anyone has any more input feel free to chime in.

 

-Steven

[airborne53]

hello

another unis stuff from same seller , strange usmc stamp on very late belt , unis stamp similar to other

 

olivier

 

 

[ArchangelDM]

Hi Steven -

I believe this has all been stamped at the same time using the same stencil,

The sizes should all be different and show some unique differences.

These are very neat and what Ive found is the marines didnt care much for putting them on, it was something done in a hurry almost.

These have almost been done professionally and with great care, something Im not familiar with on my

Marked items.

 

Yours

Dean

[WWII_GI]

Thank you everyone for the help, I should not have bought this stuff. I'm gonna talk to the seller about all this and see if he would accept a return. I purchased one of the canteen covers off of eBay and the rest were purchased from the same seller outside of eBay and paid through PayPal. So I am protected under the eBay and PayPal policies. Hopefully I'm able to return everything without starting a case with PayPal.

 

-Steven

[ArchangelDM]

Thank you everyone for the help, I should not have bought this stuff. I'm gonna talk to the seller about all this and see if he would accept a return. I purchased one of the canteen covers off of eBay and the rest were purchased from the same seller outside of eBay and paid through PayPal. So I am protected under the eBay and PayPal policies. Hopefully I'm able to return everything without starting a case with PayPal.

 

-Steven

Steven I wish you all the best with your return, Im sure it will go well for you.

 

Yours

Dean

[WWII_GI]

Steven I wish you all the best with your return, Im sure it will go well for you.

 

Yours

Dean

 

Thanks Dean, I'll keep this thread updated with the process.

 

-Steven

[mikie]

There's a couple of other things that make me uncomfortable. A 1945 magazine pouch UNIS marked? Never seen that. Supply chain being what it is, could a pouch get made in 1945, put in theater, and used by the end of hostilities (March 1945)?

 

Also don't recognize that stencil as being USMC - I know there was some variation, but that one is alien to me.

Dad was Army in the Pacific the entire war and I can remember him saying that as his unit was preparing for Okinawa, tons and tons of fresh new equipment came pouring in. He said they were all stunned by the quantity of material coming in. There were lots of items they had never seen before. He was a bit resentful that it only started showing up when it wasn't needed in Europe anymore. Of course I have no idea the dates on the stuff, but it's seems possible that some of it was 1945 dated.

Mikie

[WWII_GI]

Good news, the seller agreed to take everything back for a full refund. I'm still lost on this gear, heres what the seller said

 

"I had bought these from multiple sellers over a period of years , but all in Calf or AZ. as I said , maybe someone is faking them , but I cant see how they are all bad ? Different stencils and varied coloration if you look under a good light"?"

 

The gear has some age to it but all the marking look to have aged the exact same, which is not normal for the usual sun faded Marine gear. I should have posted here before making the deal! Definitely gonna do that next time. The seller is appears to be an honest man so I do not want to bash him for this mixup. Just be aware that this gear is out there and if it were just a single piece on its own it would probably look pretty believable.

 

​The sellers ID on eBay is JulesRelics

 

https://www.ebay.com/usr/julesrelics?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754

 

Thank you all again for the help.

 

-Steven

[ArchangelDM]

Good news, the seller agreed to take everything back for a full refund. I'm still lost on this gear, heres what the seller said

 

"I had bought these from multiple sellers over a period of years , but all in Calf or AZ. as I said , maybe someone is faking them , but I cant see how they are all bad ? Different stencils and varied coloration if you look under a good light"?"

 

The gear has some age to it but all the marking look to have aged the exact same, which is not normal for the usual sun faded Marine gear. I should have posted here before making the deal! Definitely gonna do that next time. The seller is appears to be an honest man so I do not want to bash him for this mixup. Just be aware that this gear is out there and if it were just a single piece on its own it would probably look pretty believable.

 

​The sellers ID on eBay is JulesRelics

 

https://www.ebay.com/usr/julesrelics?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754

 

Thank you all again for the help.

 

-Steven

Glad it all turned out ok Steven -

 

Yours

Dean

[Steve1987]

Very concerning. I don't like the items either.

 

On their own, these would trick a lot of collectors. I have no doubts someone is effectively making fake UNIS gear. It's not even that hard. It's at the point where it's almost foolish to be buying this stuff anymore.

 

Regards,

-Steve

[WWII_GI]

Very concerning. I don't like the items either.

 

On their own, these would trick a lot of collectors. I have no doubts someone is effectively making fake UNIS gear. It's not even that hard. It's at the point where it's almost foolish to be buying this stuff anymore.

 

Regards,

-Steve

 

Exactly! If it were just one of these items on their own I would honestly think it was original. That is definitely true, wouldn't be too hard to age some paint on canvas. Pretty scary stuff... Gonna have to look closer next time.

 

-Steven

[Blacksmith]

Mmmmmm... Not sure I can make that jump with you. To follow that logic would basically render the entire hobby foolish - maybe it is. A bunch of this stuff is easy to fake. Buy a plain-Jane USMC Alpha tunic, scribble a roster name in the shoulder, add the right ribbons - voila, Raider tunic. Turn an M1 into a camo M2? Juice up that M42 Heer lid with a new liner? The list goes on...

 

Alternatively, post your object of interest BEFORE you buy it, and the story is very different. Dont do it, and you take the risk. Some guys are so eager to hit Buy It Now, as theyre scared somebody else will beat them to it.

 

Then show up here, with a howd I do? topic, just to get bad news. I know, Ive done it multiple times. If I stay in my lane, and buy what I know; or, seek advice from those that do, Im fine.

 

 

Very concerning. I don't like the items either.

 

On their own, these would trick a lot of collectors. I have no doubts someone is effectively making fake UNIS gear. It's not even that hard. It's at the point where it's almost foolish to be buying this stuff anymore.

 

Regards,

-Steve

[Steve1987]

Hi Blacksmith,

 

There are certain areas of the hobby that are more dangerous than others. I think UNIS marked field gear is one of those areas where the fakes are so good, it's hardly worth it anymore. I have a fair bit of UNIS items but mostly in groups and things I am 100% certain about.

 

The other items you mention are of course faked as well. UNIS marked field gear is just so EASY to make. All you need is some old Army gear, a stencil, ink, and bit of honest wear re-enacting, leaving it out in the sun, etc. and the results will be convincing. There are plenty of fake tunics and camo helmets in collections as well.

 

If these items were posted individually, do you think we would have been able to determine they were fake from the photos? I sort of doubt it, and I have been collecting USMC marked gear for quite a while.

 

There is some items I am still comfortable with, but I stopped buying UNIS field gear on ebay or at big shows. Just too risky. There is safer investments to buy, I don't like to take chances!

 

Cheers,

-Steve

[Blacksmith]

Yeah, you have a good point. I will say I would not have bought a piece of this, even if I'd have only seen one. I didn't like the stencil, just because I didn't recognize it as USMC. I'm familiar with both the large and small USMC stencils, and these look like neither.

 

Also, the Army canteen covers cause me to pause. I'm well aware the Marines carried Army gear, and have seen pics of quilted covers on their hips. However, I don't think I've seen a legit UNIS-marked Army cover - not to say they don't exist.

 

And I totally agree that the death knell was seeing the group together.

 

I agree, less effort to fake than a painted helmet.

 

Hi Blacksmith,

 

There are certain areas of the hobby that are more dangerous than others. I think UNIS marked field gear is one of those areas where the fakes are so good, it's hardly worth it anymore. I have a fair bit of UNIS items but mostly in groups and things I am 100% certain about.

 

The other items you mention are of course faked as well. UNIS marked field gear is just so EASY to make. All you need is some old Army gear, a stencil, ink, and bit of honest wear re-enacting, leaving it out in the sun, etc. and the results will be convincing. There are plenty of fake tunics and camo helmets in collections as well.

 

If these items were posted individually, do you think we would have been able to determine they were fake from the photos? I sort of doubt it, and I have been collecting USMC marked gear for quite a while.

 

There is some items I am still comfortable with, but I stopped buying UNIS field gear on ebay or at big shows. Just too risky. There is safer investments to buy, I don't like to take chances!

 

Cheers,

-Steve