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Paper cartridges for Review


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Hi,

 

Are the following paper cartridges U.S. Civil War original? Thanking you all in advance and hoping to hear from some of you very soon.

 

Regards, juno-44

 

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Steve Rogers

They look to be okay to me. Did all of them come together in the cartridge box tins? Normally the lower compartment was used for unopened packages. But I have had several examples where the box had probably been used postwar for hunting and the cartridges were loose. It could also be that a collector simply put them all in the lower compartment for safe keeping when the plastic was added.

I do see a number of fake cartridges-- paper wrapped .58s and linen Sharps, etc.- being sold online. These look period. Is there any relevant background?

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I agree with Steve - .58 or .68 cal is the question too

 

the fourth blue one could be a pistol round?

 

did you just get these? are you going to sell them?

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Hi Steve,

 

Thanks for your replies and yes all cartridges originally came wrapped in the 2 cartridge box tins. The 2 box tins originally came in this pouch which I still have.

 

Regards, Michel

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thx for the extra pictures - is there a US embossed on the front of the cartridge box?

 

This is a M1864 patterned box ( no cartridge plate) and rivets to reinforce the loops and the closure tab

 

nice box and sling!

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Hi mdk0911

 

Thanks again for replying, sorry no US embossed on the front. Was it suppose to be embossed or have a plate?

 

Regards, Michel

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Steve Rogers

This is the July 1864 pattern, made without an inner flap, and produced for only a couple of months. Johnson notes that advertisements for contracts of the pattern were made on July 4, but no sample sets were shipped to arsenals until July 22, so contractors had to make bids without seeing the new pattern. It is possible that this was produced by Dingee and Lorigan before they were aware of the requirement for the embossed US. They were to deliver 5,000 sets to the NY Arsenal. It would be interesting to know if there are other un-embossed examples of this pattern by this maker.

Paul Johnson usually sets up at the Baltimore show. If you are coming you should bring it to show him for comment. If not, I can mention it to him if you like.

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Steve Rogers

They look like standard .58 caliber rounds to me. The blue are probably Williams cleaner rounds. The slightly differing lengths are probably due to the powder settling or being compressed by the weight of the bullet, etc.

I'll mention it to Paul this weekend.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Steve Rogers

I had a chance to talk briefly with Paul at the Baltimore show and described the box to him. He thought it unusual that it was not embossed and did not recall seeing one before, though we did not get into how many embossed examples of the pattern by Dingee and Lorigan are out there. His initial reaction was that it was either a box made by them for the state or for private purchase.

One question I was not able to answer is whether it has a federal inspector stamp on it. If it does, then we would be dealing with a box that somehow slipped through the inspection process or was subject to some special exemption. More likely it does not have an federal inspector mark and it was destined for a state or private purchase. New York used SNY cartridge box plates for its national guard accoutrements starting in 1863/64, when new regulations for the uniform, etc., came into effect and the designation was changed from NY State Militia to National Guard State of NY.

It occurs to me that it might also have gone to another state. A number of New York made and marked forage caps, for instance, don't show up in either US or NY purchases, but do show up with legit identifications to soldiers from other states (I think there are some West Virginia id'd examples.) It would make sense also for a state that did not have adequate manufacturing ability to shop for accoutrements on the open market.

Let us know if there is an inspector's stamp. It's a very interesting box and I really like the relatively full load of ammunition that came with it.

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  • 3 months later...

You may also wish to inquire on some of the re-enactor boards such as cwreenactor.com or authentic campaigner. May be a few on Facebook also. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people in the hobby.

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