Jump to content


Photo

USAF Security police 1978-1985


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 mjerickson

mjerickson
  • Members
    • Member ID: 1,680
  • 142 posts

Posted 06 March 2018 - 11:04 PM

what was the standard M-16 type issued at the time to the USAF? partial fence or full fence receiver, slab side or forward assist, 3 prong or bird cage flash hider? 

 

Also what would have been the standard side arm? would a staff Sgt (E-5) have been issued if any. I would appreciate any help from those that may have actually served in the role.

 

thanks 



#2 Taber10

Taber10
  • Members
    • Member ID: 152,822
  • 44 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Okaloosa County, NW Florida

Posted 07 March 2018 - 05:36 AM

I did not serve as SP, but I was in the USAF throughout that period.  There were no M-16s in the AF without Forward Assist by 1978, nor were there any three-prong flash hiders.  The E-5 would have been issued a service revolver in .38 special.  I believe they were Smith & Wesson Military and Police model, double action Model M15.  Normally an E-5 was issued the rifle, but SPs could also be issued the revolver, I believe, if they were manning an inside post, were "law enforcement" or other specific reasons where his/her post instructions called for a sidearm.  Hope this helps, at least until we see what the real answers are!



#3 mjerickson

mjerickson
  • Members
    • Member ID: 1,680
  • 142 posts

Posted 07 March 2018 - 11:19 PM

I guess I should put a bit finer point on it. I grew up outside of K.I. Sawyer AFB, our elementary school was on base. Every morning I watched a SP wave us past the gate and once a month or so when there was an alert they would inspect our school bus. I am working on a uniform display to my collection and would like the weapons to be accurate. My cousin was stationed at Sawyer as a buck sgt (3 stripes) and the SPs that walked the bus carried a rifle and side arm. 

 

Thanks for the info on the features of the M-16 type rifle and the S&W mod 15, does anyone know the standard type holster at the time. 

 

As a side note, I was in boy scouts back then and one time we toured the SP office and got to go for rides in the police units. I rode in the Senior Chiefs truck. He did not have an M-16 but an M-1 carbine. I recognized it right away because my had a surplus one for years.



#4 ccyooper

ccyooper
  • Members
    • Member ID: 2,641
  • 1,115 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 08 March 2018 - 10:56 AM

I believe the standard side holster was a black Bucheimer holster that had a belt hooks and swivel along with black ammo pouches.  They would have all the standard AF nomenclature on the back, etc.  They are standard shaped pistol holster.  I am sure if you look up model 15 and bucheimer holster in air force you will find pictures.  Hey you never what you will see on the road to Gwinn..



#5 C500

C500
  • Members
    • Member ID: 69,722
  • 57 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 13 March 2018 - 07:54 PM

I just sold a USAF .model 15. Tough gun to find,I don't think they were ever surplus just went to capn crunch.

#6 Charlie Flick

Charlie Flick

    MODERATOR

  • Moderators
    • Member ID: 68
  • 2,443 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunny Florida, USA

Posted 14 March 2018 - 03:34 PM

I just sold a USAF .model 15. Tough gun to find,I don't think they were ever surplus just went to capn crunch.

 

Yep, they were not surplused in the traditional sense and were not sold through the DCM or CMP. 

 

However, the  S&W Model 15 Combat Masterpiece did dribble out of the Air Force via legitimate means in small quantities.  This was mostly through inter-agency transfers.  USGI weapons were, for a time, available to other Federal agencies and to qualified state and local law enforcement agencies.  When some of the state/local agencies later on needed new weapons, sometimes those that had been obtained from the US Government were offered in trade to gun distributors/dealers.  Those trade-in guns were in turn sold on the civilian market. 

 

I am aware of several USAF marked Model 15s that went that route.  I am also aware of a group of USGI Winchester Model 12 trench guns that were transferred to the US Customs Service office in SC.  Those guns eventually were traded to a gun dealer and ended up being sold to civilians.  Same thing with a group of US marked Colt Detective Special revolvers that shipped to the Army in 1970 but were later sold to civilians by SARCO about 15 years ago.  All of these transactions were legit and on the up and up.

 

The Government has since changed the rules and sharply restricted the transfer of small arms to state/local agencies.  It has also insisted upon the return of some small arms transferred in the past.

 

Regards,

Charlie



#7 m1ashooter

m1ashooter
  • Members
    • Member ID: 4,672
  • 2,610 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kingwood Texas

Posted 14 March 2018 - 08:46 PM

USAF Missile Cops Alert Response Teams carried M16A1's. With the Bird Cage flash suppressor.  Security Police offices carried GAU-5s.  Missile Fire Teams, had two M16A1's, a M60 gunner and a M16 with a grenade launcher.  SP's assigned to LE normally carried a revolver.



#8 BigMoose

BigMoose
  • Members
    • Member ID: 96,071
  • 189 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 20 March 2018 - 10:38 AM

There were a lot of Carbines around. GAU-5s which were later turned piecemeal into GUU-5/Ps for use with M855.

 

Lot of revolvers around. S&W Victory, and some 60s purchased GUU-1/P S&W K38 revolvers.

 

M16s of course. Which later got turned into M16A2s.\

 

Shotguns of all manner and type. Got told by a GI who was one of the ICBM "key turners" that the silo was equipped with Winchester 1897s!


Edited by BigMoose, 20 March 2018 - 10:41 AM.


#9 oakleaf777

oakleaf777
  • Members
    • Member ID: 160,238
  • 64 posts

Posted 12 April 2018 - 04:56 PM

Can any former USAF SPs tell me why they were issued 38 revolvers instead of the regularly issued m1911 .45 or M9 Beretta?

I was Army MP, and we carried the M9 Beretta both while performing LE duty in garrison and combat support operations in the field. I have always wondered why USAF issued .38 revolvers to law enforcement and security personnel when the .45 automatic was standard issue across all four branches of the armed forces?

#10 kwill

kwill
  • Members
    • Member ID: 403
  • 344 posts

Posted 12 April 2018 - 04:59 PM

The Colt M1911A1 was abandoned by the USAF in the early 1960s.  Standard issue was the S&W Model 15 until the Beretta M9 was adopted.



#11 oakleaf777

oakleaf777
  • Members
    • Member ID: 160,238
  • 64 posts

Posted 13 April 2018 - 04:18 AM

Do you know the reason why they chose a 38 revolver over the .45 automatic? I remember well during the late 80s and 90s when civilian law enforcement agencies were beginning to replace revolvers with semiautomatic pistols, one of the main arguments against doing so was that semiautomatics were military weapons, and thus unsuitable for civilian police work. I had assumed that USAF issued SP cops revolvers in order to give them a more officer friendly appearance.

#12 kwill

kwill
  • Members
    • Member ID: 403
  • 344 posts

Posted 13 April 2018 - 05:25 AM

I don't think it had anything to do with appearances except in one case--the SAC honor guard carried nickel plated Victory Model revolvers with plastic "stag" grips in cross-draw holsters.  General Curtis LeMay felt that every Airman should be competent with small arms and knew that over 100,000 USAAF personnel had been shot down and interned during WWII.  The Air Force bought over 40,000 lightweight Aircrewman revolvers in the 1950s and started buying S&W target revolvers for their shooting team in the early 1960s.  The Model 15 was adopted as the standard sidearm in 1962. This standardized all USAF personnel on similar revolvers with the same ammunition.  By the 1960s most M1911A1 pistols had been rebuilt at least once.  In addition, many felt they weren't accurate, were hard to handle and impossible to manipulate with one hand.  




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users