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64 FIS real or repro


henkster312
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I have not seen a Rosen 64th before, but from the pics maybe I have now. If those are synthetic fibers on the back, the patch is kind of floppy and you can see through it, those are hallmarks of the Rosen repros. It's hard to tell 100% from the pics though, I would have to hold it to be sure. The 64 FIS inactivated in 1969. Here's a shot of a known cut edge good one, but there are many variations around. Cotton backed. Note that Rosen used the same punch cards the originals were done on, he just skimped on the materials.

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henkster312

Thank you sir.

Did anybody ever asked nord co wich units they did and how many?? Does jerome polder know??

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I have a list I compiled at home. Mostly FIS, but there was at least one each BS, FDS and FBS that I know of as well. I have no idea of Nord Co's involvement, just that Rosen was part of it on some level and he was responsible for having these done. These appeared in the mid-late 80s. I can ask Jerry and see what he remembers if it adds anything to the story. These pop up on eBay all the time and people sell/buy them as real period pieces, but they are not. Funny that most of the ones he did are not all that rare anyway.

 

Randy

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I have a list I compiled at home. Mostly FIS, but there was at least one each BS, FDS and FBS that I know of as well. I have no idea of Nord Co's involvement, just that Rosen was part of it on some level and he was responsible for having these done. These appeared in the mid-late 80s. I can ask Jerry and see what he remembers if it adds anything to the story. These pop up on eBay all the time and people sell/buy them as real period pieces, but they are not. Funny that most of the ones he did are not all that rare anyway.

 

Randy

 

 

Polder had a page these patches in the back of his catalog....and IIRC, he wanted something like $75 for them. He did have them firmly IDed in his catalog as repros, so no foul.

 

-Ski

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Yes, Jerry did sell them as repros. Now that time has passed these are being passed off as real. Quite a few are doing it unknowingly, as at first glance the look like older US made patches. I have seen some people that know better though. And therein lies the trouble with items like these...

 

Randy

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I took a look and here are the known repros from this group: FIS=2,13, 29, 60 5", 95 5", 327, 431, 440, 497. TFS= 334 5". FDS= 356. FBS=417. BS=327. There are a few more I can't recall, and maybe a navy patch as well. The twill ones have a very loose cheesecloth backing and low thread count, and all have massive amounts of synthetic threads on the reverse. Don't be ashamed if you have some, they've fooled a lot of folks! Here's the ad Ski was talking about from a mid 90s era Aeroemblem catalog.

 

Randy

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Wow was I off! I guess the $25.00 felt like $75.00 back then, hehehehe..... Once you see an original, there is no mistaking these as repros. The really soft twill is a dead giveaway immediately. You can add the smaller 3.5" 95th FIS to that list.

 

-Ski

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henkster312

Wow I didnt know this guy was making so many repros.

Thanks for the replies on this and shine a light on this issue.

 

Henk

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Yeah, this was not an issue at the time as most USAF patch collectors were aware of these being made back in the 1990's having seen the catalogs, but you add 20 years to that and you have a problem with newer collectors. I knew these would be a problem at some point and now they are popping up.

 

-Ski

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henkster312

I started collecting in 1988 when I still lived in the netherlands. All I had was writing to bases and andre wilderdijk who would have all the cool patches of old units etc. honestly I was never aware of the repros. One friend had some polder books and I was always amazed by all the patches he had in there. I never saw the FIS patches in there with issues or I overlooked them. Thanks guys

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I've known Andre for 30 years, great guy. Here's one example so folks can see the difference. Real patch at top, Rosen repro on the bottom.

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...and the backs. Those are cotton threads on the real one, synthetic on the repro. Also note the loose style of cheesecloth common on the repro twill patches.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Here is a little something to add to the conversation. Many of you probably remember back in the early mid 1990's before ebay and dealer websites, the excitement of getting a new patch list in the mail. The better ones would include several pages of black and white photo copies of the patches. I held on to many of these for reference purposes and for better or worse still have a binder stuffed full full of them.

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