USMC-RECON0321 Posted February 25, 2018 Share #1 Posted February 25, 2018 Hello, I picked this up at the SOS as it looked interesting to research, but not really being a uniform collector I got talked out of it before the end of the show. I don't believe the buyer is a forum member so I thought I would share the few pics I took of it while I had it. The jacket was named and ID'd to a soldier assigned to the 16th Constabulary, Company D. He shows having 3 years over seas, a CIB, Purple Heart, 4 campaign stars with arrow head (9th Infantry Div patch on right sleeve) and no rank on the sleeve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC-RECON0321 Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share #2 Posted February 25, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC-RECON0321 Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share #3 Posted February 25, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC-RECON0321 Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share #4 Posted February 25, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted February 25, 2018 Share #5 Posted February 25, 2018 It was very nicely displayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC-RECON0321 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share #6 Posted February 26, 2018 It was very nicely displayed. Very true! Not looking for uniforms I'm sure I wouldn't have noticed it if it was smashed between a pile of other uniforms hanging on a make shift bar behind the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntssurplus Posted February 26, 2018 Share #7 Posted February 26, 2018 Looks like a very nice ike, weird how there is no rank on the sleeve, especially after 6 years of service one would think they would at least be a corporal? Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC-RECON0321 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share #8 Posted February 26, 2018 Looks like a very nice ike, weird how there is no rank on the sleeve, especially after 6 years of service one would think they would at least be a corporal? Hunt That was part of why I was looking forward to researching him. He also surely could've went home with the time over seas and a purple heart, but stayed on for occupation duty. I'm thinking maybe he met a girl and didn't want to go home maybe? (just a guess). The rank, no idea, but I don't think he was busted down because he does have a good conduct ribbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntssurplus Posted February 26, 2018 Share #9 Posted February 26, 2018 That was part of why I was looking forward to researching him. He also surely could've went home with the time over seas and a purple heart, but stayed on for occupation duty. I'm thinking maybe he met a girl and didn't want to go home maybe? (just a guess). The rank, no idea, but I don't think he was busted down because he does have a good conduct ribbon. Maybe it was because of the girl that got him demoted! lol Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted February 26, 2018 Share #10 Posted February 26, 2018 And it has the correct and very scarce patch worn by the 16th, where the red lightning bolt goes "under" the C. The typical common version has the lightning bolt "over" the C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted February 26, 2018 Share #11 Posted February 26, 2018 All to often, collectors seem to equate the army of 1917, 1945 or even 1969 with the army of today. In today's army, if a soldier doesn't progress to at least E-4 prior to his or her ETS date, they aren't eligible for reenlistment. They need to have attended PLDC and be working toward educational requirements on both the military and civilian side. The soldier who wore this uniform in 1946 could very well have been illiterate. The average amount of schooling for the WWII GI was about 8th grade. Today, a soldier has to have a high school diploma or at least a GED. There were no educational requirements in WWII for enlistment. Nor were there requirements to progress through the ranks. Most soldiers weren't looking for the extra responsibilities associated with being in a leadership position. Additionally, rank was based on the positions available in the unit. Sergeants getting transferred from one unit to another did not take their rank with them. The rank was awarded and taken away at the whim of the unit commander. This veteran could have simply been transferred to the Constabulary and thus came in as a slick sleeve private even if he had been a senior NCO previously. I really like the uniform. I believe it to be 100% legit as it sits. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC-RECON0321 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share #12 Posted February 26, 2018 All to often, collectors seem to equate the army of 1917, 1945 or even 1969 with the army of today. In today's army, if a soldier doesn't progress to at least E-4 prior to his or her ETS date, they aren't eligible for reenlistment. They need to have attended PLDC and be working toward educational requirements on both the military and civilian side. The soldier who wore this uniform in 1946 could very well have been illiterate. The average amount of schooling for the WWII GI was about 8th grade. Today, a soldier has to have a high school diploma or at least a GED. There were no educational requirements in WWII for enlistment. Nor were there requirements to progress through the ranks. Most soldiers weren't looking for the extra responsibilities associated with being in a leadership position. Additionally, rank was based on the positions available in the unit. Sergeants getting transferred from one unit to another did not take their rank with them. The rank was awarded and taken away at the whim of the unit commander. This veteran could have simply been transferred to the Constabulary and thus came in as a slick sleeve private even if he had been a senior NCO previously. I really like the uniform. I believe it to be 100% legit as it sits. Allan Great points!! Thaniks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmoore456 Posted February 26, 2018 Share #13 Posted February 26, 2018 This uniform came out of the late John Coy collection. He had gotten it from the vets family. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC-RECON0321 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share #14 Posted February 26, 2018 This uniform came out of the late John Coy collection. He had gotten it from the vets family. Ray Interesting. I'm not familiar with that collection. Do you know more about the Vet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntssurplus Posted February 26, 2018 Share #15 Posted February 26, 2018 All to often, collectors seem to equate the army of 1917, 1945 or even 1969 with the army of today. In today's army, if a soldier doesn't progress to at least E-4 prior to his or her ETS date, they aren't eligible for reenlistment. They need to have attended PLDC and be working toward educational requirements on both the military and civilian side. The soldier who wore this uniform in 1946 could very well have been illiterate. The average amount of schooling for the WWII GI was about 8th grade. Today, a soldier has to have a high school diploma or at least a GED. There were no educational requirements in WWII for enlistment. Nor were there requirements to progress through the ranks. Most soldiers weren't looking for the extra responsibilities associated with being in a leadership position. Additionally, rank was based on the positions available in the unit. Sergeants getting transferred from one unit to another did not take their rank with them. The rank was awarded and taken away at the whim of the unit commander. This veteran could have simply been transferred to the Constabulary and thus came in as a slick sleeve private even if he had been a senior NCO previously. I really like the uniform. I believe it to be 100% legit as it sits. Allan Agreed, very good points being made here. Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC-RECON0321 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share #16 Posted February 26, 2018 Interesting. I'm not familiar with that collection. Do you know more about the Vet? never mind. Wasn't hard to figure that out. Wow,,, he had an amazing collection. I do recall seeing many items coming out of his collection over the years but wasn't familiar with where they originated from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIl Sanow Posted February 26, 2018 Share #17 Posted February 26, 2018 That's the shoulder cord for the Berlin Brigade. Was the 16th in Berlin after the war, or did someone add the cord? G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakkasan187 Posted February 26, 2018 Share #18 Posted February 26, 2018 Gil, The 4th Regiment which was headquartered in Austria had subordinate units in Berlin.. Leigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC-RECON0321 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share #19 Posted February 26, 2018 Gil, The 4th Regiment which was headquartered in Austria had subordinate units in Berlin.. Leigh Thanks for the info. Not being a uniform guy, nor versed in Constabulary history, I also find it very interesting the 16th was the only Constabulary Unit "authorized" to use the Constabulary Tab and the only unit to design their SSI having the red lightning bolt to go under the "C' rather than over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martinjmpr Posted February 26, 2018 Share #20 Posted February 26, 2018 So quick question then: This uniform has the "Ruptured Duck" discharge badge above the right pocket. When did that practice stop? I had thought it ended in early or mid 1946? Reason I'm asking is that since the Constabulary Corps units were established in post-WWII Germany, wouldn't there only be a short "overlap" period during which a soldier would have gotten both a Constabulary patch AND a Ruptured Duck upon discharge? So it seems as if this soldier was a part of 9th ID, served during WWII in the ETO and then stayed over as the occupying forces were converted to Constabulary, then returned to the US and was discharged some time before the end of 1946 or whenever the Ruptured Duck stopped being put onto uniforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC-RECON0321 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share #21 Posted February 26, 2018 So quick question then: This uniform has the "Ruptured Duck" discharge badge above the right pocket. When did that practice stop? I had thought it ended in early or mid 1946? Reason I'm asking is that since the Constabulary Corps units were established in post-WWII Germany, wouldn't there only be a short "overlap" period during which a soldier would have gotten both a Constabulary patch AND a Ruptured Duck upon discharge? So it seems as if this soldier was a part of 9th ID, served during WWII in the ETO and then stayed over as the occupying forces were converted to Constabulary, then returned to the US and was discharged some time before the end of 1946 or whenever the Ruptured Duck stopped being put onto uniforms. Good question for the uniform guys to chime in on. He may have just sewn it on later in years after getting out for good, to display on his uniform? Not following regulations, but to show he earned it. (just a guess anyway and it wouldn't have been hard to get your hands on one) what are other's thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted February 26, 2018 Share #22 Posted February 26, 2018 He was in D Troop. Until late 1948, the Constab used cav designations, troops and squadrons in lieu of battalions and companies. 4th Constab Regt, HQd in Austria, directed the 4th and 24th Sqs initially in Austria and the 16th, stationed in Berlin. 16th performed Constab mission in Berlin, plus manned Spandau Prison, checkpoints w/ Russkies on other end, and supported the Berlin Airlift. As has been mentioned previously, the Constab tab worn was actually a good conduct award. It could be removed for transgressions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC-RECON0321 Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share #23 Posted February 27, 2018 He was in D Troop. Until late 1948, the Constab used cav designations, troops and squadrons in lieu of battalions and companies. 4th Constab Regt, HQd in Austria, directed the 4th and 24th Sqs initially in Austria and the 16th, stationed in Berlin. 16th performed Constab mission in Berlin, plus manned Spandau Prison, checkpoints w/ Russkies on other end, and supported the Berlin Airlift. As has been mentioned previously, the Constab tab worn was actually a good conduct award. It could be removed for transgressions. Interesting. So as far as Constabulary units go, which would be the most desirable to collect? In a general sense, not counting if you had a personal connection to one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted February 28, 2018 Share #24 Posted February 28, 2018 The 16th is a desirable one to collect, especially since it often has the unique patch with the C over the bolt, and was authorized a tab. I've found any legit tabbed patch combo is quite scarce especially with the many fakes nowadays. This uniform is fantastic with both fourrageres, tab, and a very nicely embroidered ribbon rack. Do you know if that was a scarf or an ascot? I really like the theater-made DI on the cap and the bullion CIB. I've also have had a few Constabulary jackets without sleeve rank but evidence of longer service. If you're ever in the mood for a good walk through Constab land, check out Tred's threads here on the forum and website--many works of art in his collection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC-RECON0321 Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share #25 Posted February 28, 2018 The 16th is a desirable one to collect, especially since it often has the unique patch with the C over the bolt, and was authorized a tab. I've found any legit tabbed patch combo is quite scarce especially with the many fakes nowadays. This uniform is fantastic with both fourrageres, tab, and a very nicely embroidered ribbon rack. Do you know if that was a scarf or an ascot? I really like the theater-made DI on the cap and the bullion CIB. I've also have had a few Constabulary jackets without sleeve rank but evidence of longer service. If you're ever in the mood for a good walk through Constab land, check out Tred's threads here on the forum and website--many works of art in his collection! Thanks for the information. And yes, that was a scarf that came with it. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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