manayunkman Posted February 16, 2018 Share #1 Posted February 16, 2018 These are the only pictures I have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBookGuy Posted February 16, 2018 Share #2 Posted February 16, 2018 Yes they are except one, precisely that Colt 1861 'Army' pictured in the first photo, lower position. As shown there it's a 1861 having got the so-called 'Richards' conversion from percussion to metallic cartridges - this would date necessarily the gun at least very late 1860s, not before. Or, even early 1870s; but not Civil war absolutely. The Richards patent (and subsequent Richards-Mason) were a gapstop in order to have thousands of older, but still good, Colt percussion revolvers updated to the more modern breechloading system, while waiting for the 'Open Top 1872' and the iconic 'Peacemaker Mod. 1873' to arrive on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludwigh1980 Posted February 16, 2018 Share #3 Posted February 16, 2018 All except one are period original firearms. There is what looks like a replica of a Colt Dragoon. (1st picture where just the barrel is shown, upper right, 2nd picture where the handle is shown lower left). The Colt 1860 Conversion is a honey of an example, especially if the barrel has not been shortened and restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBookGuy Posted February 16, 2018 Share #4 Posted February 16, 2018 Yes where written 1861, I intended Colt 1860 - just a distraction. That converted 1860 Army is indeed a great specimen. Some years ago I've got a Richard-Mason conversion of the percussion Navy 1861, an even rarer thing given that, there were few of those modified to breechloaders in centerfire Colt 38. In great condition and also nickeled, could be the best piece in my small collection of Western-related firearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share #5 Posted February 16, 2018 An estate sale company has asked me to make an offer. They have one other guy who is also making an offer. What would be competitive but still leave room to sell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWS Posted February 16, 2018 Share #6 Posted February 16, 2018 The Charles B. Richard's conversions based on the 1860 Colt Army were patented in July,1871, U.S. patent 117,461. A total of 1203 Model of 1860 revolvers were sent to Colt for the Richard's Conversion to metallic cartridge. Those revolvers retained their original serial numbers and range from 23000 to 144000. Additionally, at the time of conversion, 3 digit sets of assembly numbers were added at several locations adjacent to the original serial numbers. All the U.S. Ordnance conversions were inspected by O.W. Ainsworth and his stamp-A. can be found on several parts of the pistol. The stamp of-U.S. was placed on the barrel lug in front of the wedge. The cylinders used were a mix of turned down percussion and newly machined cylinders. A typical original U.S. marked Richard's conversion will have mixed original serial(percussion) numbers and matching assembly numbers. To complicate collecting these revolvers, Colt also manufactured newly made revolvers of the same model (1st) concurrently with the U.S. marked ones. This group of about 5000 revolvers were made for the civilian market and manufactured from all new parts--no percussion parts were used and are today known as 1860 first model original cartridge Richard's conversions. (even though they were not converted from a percussion model) Without several close-up photos of specific locations of the Colt revolver mentioned, it is impossible to determine if this is a martially marked or civilian 1st Model Richard's Conversion revolver. I can't speak for the other revolvers shown as to whether they were Civil War era or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share #7 Posted February 16, 2018 I'm going to see them on Monday when a final decision is made. Any help is appreciated even a ball park figure of an offer. Thanks GWS for that specific info I will check the serial number range, the 3 digit number and The A's. And thanks to all for your help. I'm sorry that the pictures are so lame but I appreciate any kind of ball park figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWS Posted February 16, 2018 Share #8 Posted February 16, 2018 I tried to copy the image and blow it up a bit with no success. A few more tips to consider: All frames (US and civilian) were marked Colts/Patent on left side near the front of the frame. Only some the civilian model had Patent dates in two lines of the left side rear of frame. All but 50 of the U.S. revolvers had the grips replaced and were stamped with the Ainsworth cartouche on the bottom of the left grip panel. This is a fairly difficult model to evaluate , so if you can get your hands on a copy of Bruce McDowell's "A Study of Colt Conversions and Other Percussion Revolvers" before the sale, might would be the best way to help evaluate this revolver. With so few of the U.S. Richard's conversions made, they are very difficult to find these days. I would advise to make sure the U.S. marking is present---without that you have to treat it as a civilian market revolver, which is still worth pursuing. I've been away from this market for a long time. I hate to value any firearm based solely on pictures, so my ballpark numbers will have a very wide range-- U.S. marked--$2500-$8500-Assuming everything is correct&original (percent of finish is much less important) Civilian market--$1500-$4500- same as above terms (except percent of finish is more important) All of the U.S. marked revolvers were well used and some for many years in the West. I have seen civilian models in 80-90% original finish and condition, though the picture indicates this one is basically a no finish gun, so stay conservative on value. I can't help you on the other models, but I do know some percussion revolvers were made well past the Civil War era. Hope this helps a bit more. Be cautious and good luck. Let us know the result of the sale-good,bad or otherwise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share #9 Posted February 17, 2018 Yes Ludwigh1980 that is a replica of the colt Dragoon with a crown N proof mark. Thanks again GWS. What is the smaller Colt and the other pistol with the folding trigger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share #10 Posted February 17, 2018 Belgian rim fire and a Colt pocket revolver? Though the Colt looks too big for a pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWS Posted February 17, 2018 Share #11 Posted February 17, 2018 Belgian rim fire and a Colt pocket revolver? Though the Colt looks too big for a pocket. No idea on the foreign pistol, but definitely European design. The "Colt" maybe a 1849 "pocket revolver" or 1862 "pocket Navy", or not a Colt at all, but a Manhattan Firearms Pocket Model. These looked very similar to the Colt models(for a good reason!) My guess is an 1849 Pocket Model, 31cal., which was made from 1850 to 1873. Over 325,000 made.( more than any other Colt percussion model) Many variations on this model, so values are across the board. Yes, pockets were larger back then! My advice would be to take all the books you have or can find between now and then, even an old copy of a Flayderman's Guide by itself would be a huge help! With at least one known reproduction pistol in the group I'd be very wary of any claims made by the seller. That Remington looks awfully nice,...or is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share #12 Posted February 17, 2018 It's marked Remington and the pocket revolver is marked Colt. I'm sure the group is going to be over 1000 and I'm up against an auctioneer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backtheattack Posted February 17, 2018 Share #13 Posted February 17, 2018 Very interesting. Never thought the Lefaucheux system was used in the Civil War, but with a short search for information I found it was used in greater numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share #14 Posted February 19, 2018 I got them if anyone has any questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share #15 Posted February 19, 2018 I think I have the civilian version on the conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattS Posted February 19, 2018 Share #16 Posted February 19, 2018 Excellent, hope you got them for a decent price! Please post more pics when you can, I enjoy looking at old revolvers, especially Colts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everforward Posted February 19, 2018 Share #17 Posted February 19, 2018 From what I can see in the pics, the '51 Navy is probably a civilian contract...is there a US stamped on it..? I can't tell. (I'm saying its an 1851 Navy when sizing it next to the Dragoon...could be a 1849 Pocket Model but I'd think it would be smaller....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share #18 Posted February 19, 2018 Is the 51 Navy the Colt Conversion? It does not have US on it and the ejector is badly damaged. I'm on the road at the moment and when I stop for the night I will try and put up some pictures. They cost more than I thought they would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everforward Posted February 19, 2018 Share #19 Posted February 19, 2018 Is the 51 Navy the Colt Conversion? It does not have US on it and the ejector is badly damaged. I'm on the road at the moment and when I stop for the night I will try and put up some pictures. They cost more than I thought they would. No, the one I'm referring to is in the middle picture, post #1......the Colt in the middle of the photo that still uses percussion caps. Could be a Pocket Navy as well, as someone mentioned. The Richards-Mason conversion is the other Colt Revolver with the smooth rounded barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everforward Posted February 19, 2018 Share #20 Posted February 19, 2018 If the new-model Remington is original CW, it's in really decent shape....looks great in the pics..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share #21 Posted February 19, 2018 The Colt pocket has a stage coach of sorts with the driver holding back the horses, there is a man down and several others with rifles. That's not Navy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share #22 Posted February 20, 2018 As promised start with some detail shots of the conversion showing the damage to the ejector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share #23 Posted February 20, 2018 More Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share #24 Posted February 20, 2018 You can see how someone hammered the tube the ejector is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share #25 Posted February 20, 2018 Colt's patent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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