Frogskin7 Posted February 8, 2018 Share #1 Posted February 8, 2018 What kind of Marking is this? I think it's 5th Marine Division but I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken88 Posted February 8, 2018 Share #2 Posted February 8, 2018 Hi, I don't know of any USMC cavalry units, but if there were any, definitely look into that. Could very well be a cavalry marking. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCDUFF Posted February 8, 2018 Share #3 Posted February 8, 2018 The 2nd Marines had this style of Tac/ Unis marking with a box and diagonal line. They were normally coloured in also. Interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogskin7 Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share #4 Posted February 8, 2018 The 2nd Marines had this style of Tac/ Unis marking with a box and diagonal line. They were normally coloured in also. Interesting! 100_7335.jpg Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Posted February 8, 2018 Share #5 Posted February 8, 2018 These are not UNIS, and I would not assume / associate the shape to any division. You also occasionally see circles of different color. If you do a forum search, you'll find numerous topics on these. There are theories on what they may be, but I've not seen anything conclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCDUFF Posted February 8, 2018 Share #6 Posted February 8, 2018 These are not UNIS, and I would not assume / associate the shape to any division. You also occasionally see circles of different color. If you do a forum search, you'll find numerous topics on these. There are theories on what they may be, but I've not seen anything conclusive. The lower pack I posted is a UNIS mark of the 2nd Div. It is identified and confirmed to a Marine of the 3rd Bn 6th Marines. This type of marking is common with the 2nd Division. I am not certain the marking on the camo cover is 2nd Div, but I suggested it is very similar, and the pack example shows it may be the same design.? IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Posted February 8, 2018 Share #7 Posted February 8, 2018 I'm not trying to start a debate (actually won't), but will propose that as coincidence. I don't doubt your pack is confirmed to a 2nd MARDIV Marine. I'm saying that every marking that is roughly square shaped is not 2nd MARDIV. In your case, likely coincidental. There are also rectangles with two vertical lines, painted on gear that is not 5th MARDIV. Anyhoot, my point is that every geometric shape on USMC gear is not UNIS. These shapes are found on sea bags as well, that were never in theater. Which supports non-UNIS. Like I said, multiple threads on this very same topic already on the forum. The lower pack I posted is a UNIS mark of the 2nd Div. It is identified and confirmed to a Marine of the 3rd Bn 6th Marines. This type of marking is common with the 2nd Division. I am not certain the marking on the camo cover is 2nd Div, but I suggested it is very similar, and the pack example shows it may be the same design.? IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogskin7 Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share #8 Posted February 8, 2018 I’ll read up. As of now they are just tac marks from an unknown unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Posted February 9, 2018 Share #9 Posted February 9, 2018 I would add that I have a USMC Garand belt with this very same shape stenciled on it, that was NOT 2nd MARDIV. I would like to find something definitive on these shapes, as I am sure others would as well. Is there anything on the sand side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Posted February 9, 2018 Share #10 Posted February 9, 2018 Pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Posted February 9, 2018 Share #11 Posted February 9, 2018 Right inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Posted February 9, 2018 Share #12 Posted February 9, 2018 Left inside, with marking same as yours. I'm curious what the white triangle with exclamation point is as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogskin7 Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share #13 Posted February 9, 2018 Left inside, with marking same as yours. I'm curious what the white triangle with exclamation point is as well. I've been searching for the past day or so and haven't been able to find anything except that they are Tac Marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Posted February 10, 2018 Share #14 Posted February 10, 2018 That is how the trail typically ends. There are a bunch of guys with popcorn theories, but nothing beyond that to-date. As I'm sure you've found in the other topics, these markings get mistaken for UNIS frequently - though they are wildly different animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken88 Posted February 10, 2018 Share #15 Posted February 10, 2018 Hi Blacksmith, not sure if you're considering me one of the guys with popcorn theories, I'm not taking this personal in any case, but I had very good reasons to think that marking is related to cavalry units. Not sure why my comment was overlooked but I guess OP and everyone else doubted the credibility of my information. Just to backup my previous comment and theory, please see attachment. Just throwing in my 2 cents here... I don't know if these markings were überhaupt used by the marine corps, or if they were used in that time frame at all, but at least it's something. The symbol shown below, in any case, is a perfect match. In how far this cover is actually related to a possible USMC cavalry unit, is beyond me. But, I guess it could be possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborne53 Posted February 10, 2018 Share #16 Posted February 10, 2018 hello this belt had 3 names on it , need study on ancestry to decypher marking "J. H. Miller""Beckner, ?""A. F. Coyle" olivier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Posted February 10, 2018 Share #17 Posted February 10, 2018 Hi Ken - theories lead to discoveries, so they are all good. The exception may be when folks tout theories as fact, especially when they are mistaken. Such as tactical symbols being UNIS. I did see your post, and - like you - wonder if these shapes were used by the Marine Corps. Maybe one of our resident Devil Dogs could tell us that. I was Army, and do recall these shapes being used, though they were primarily on maps. Thank you. Hi Blacksmith, not sure if you're considering me one of the guys with popcorn theories, I'm not taking this personal in any case, but I had very good reasons to think that marking is related to cavalry units. Not sure why my comment was overlooked but I guess OP and everyone else doubted the credibility of my information. Just to backup my previous comment and theory, please see attachment. Just throwing in my 2 cents here... I don't know if these markings were überhaupt used by the marine corps, or if they were used in that time frame at all, but at least it's something. The symbol shown below, in any case, is a perfect match. In how far this cover is actually related to a possible USMC cavalry unit, is beyond me. But, I guess it could be possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted February 10, 2018 Share #18 Posted February 10, 2018 Hi Ken - theories lead to discoveries, so they are all good. The exception may be when folks tout theories as fact, especially when they are mistaken. Such as tactical symbols being UNIS. I did see your post, and - like you - wonder if these shapes were used by the Marine Corps. Maybe one of our resident Devil Dogs could tell us that. I was Army, and do recall these shapes being used, though they were primarily on maps. Thank you. Hey Blacksmith With regards to the markings on this helmet cover I would have to agree with McDuff on this one. While not all markings are UNIs markings this one sure looks like the one on McDuffs bag. Ive known McDuff for quite a while and if there is anyone who knows his Marine Core UNIs/Tac markings its him. I do agree that not all markings can be associated with specific Divisions , but this one seems to be associated with the 2nd Marine Division. Its a complex system of numbers and symbols which we are still learning about even today. If there is anyone I would go to (and have done many a time) it would be him to help with these Best D.C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Posted February 10, 2018 Share #19 Posted February 10, 2018 Hi Dean - There are many very knowledgeable collectors who have been studying USMC gear for a long time. I'm glad you respect his opinion, but I disagree. It makes zero sense to claim a box with a slash through it is a UNIS mark denoting the 2nd MARDIV. This is simply because there are no facts (I've seen) to support it. There is no affirmative reference, that anyone has unearthed, that leads to this conclusion. To the contrary, the most credible sources - such as Alec Tulkoff's "Grunt Gear" - does not support it. I have no doubt this shape is on 2nd MARDIV gear, just as it's on gear of other divisions. My point is that this shape does not denote that division. It means something else, which we're still seeking to positively understand. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, with something beyond a circumstantial connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudgy (V) Posted February 11, 2018 Share #20 Posted February 11, 2018 Thought I would add this to the mix. This is an early 120 heat stamp fixed bail. Any ideas on what this could be? 2nd regiment, 2nd division? Not sure about the S, don't think that is a company designation. I imagine the FLD is the soldiers initials. I saw an early Hawley liner with simular red stencils and a soldier's full name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogskin7 Posted February 11, 2018 Author Share #21 Posted February 11, 2018 Thought I would add this to the mix. This is an early 120 heat stamp fixed bail. Any ideas on what this could be? 2nd regiment, 2nd division? Not sure about the S, don't think that is a company designation. I imagine the FLD is the soldiers initials. I saw an early Hawley liner with simular red stencils and a soldier's full name. Probably rack/lot numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted February 11, 2018 Share #22 Posted February 11, 2018 Hi Dean - There are many very knowledgeable collectors who have been studying USMC gear for a long time. I'm glad you respect his opinion, but I disagree. It makes zero sense to claim a box with a slash through it is a UNIS mark denoting the 2nd MARDIV. This is simply because there are no facts (I've seen) to support it. There is no affirmative reference, that anyone has unearthed, that leads to this conclusion. To the contrary, the most credible sources - such as Alec Tulkoff's "Grunt Gear" - does not support it. I have no doubt this shape is on 2nd MARDIV gear, just as it's on gear of other divisions. My point is that this shape does not denote that division. It means something else, which we're still seeking to positively understand. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, with something beyond a circumstantial connection. I agree Lots of very knowledgable collectors on this forum, for that I am thankful. Handling lots of these items and doing it for years is IMHO is one of the ways to determine there actual use. Mcduff is one of those collectors IMHO that has done so. Its a very interesting topic and one that will bring different opinions/evidence by the boat load , but thats what it needs. Has anyone got any pics of this particular Unis/Tac mark being used on NON combat gear or with A unit thats NOT 2nd Div. would be intersting to see these marks being used stateside or with another unit as evidence against DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted February 11, 2018 Share #23 Posted February 11, 2018 Probably rack/lot numbers +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudgy (V) Posted February 11, 2018 Share #24 Posted February 11, 2018 I really don't think it is rack/lot marks. So when they reissued the helmet and cover, the marines all walked around with big rack marks on the back of their helmets/covers? That makes zero sense to me. I attached a picture of the cover also, it has H18 on the back, and an EGA on the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtdorango Posted February 11, 2018 Share #25 Posted February 11, 2018 Ive had quite a few covers with added ega and yellow letters/numbers like that and also on the flaps (being on inside flaps they couldnt be seen) and never found out what they were for exactly....mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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