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"Theater Made" MK2 handles..not so sure


KRIS FORD
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Often we see the term "theater made' when seeing custom handles or what-not on USN/USMC Mk2s..

 

I don't know about that..often times the work would have been nearly impossible with no tools..and I'd bet serious money they were rehandled in the 50's or 60's or even 70's-80's!..NOT in theater..I know..not as cool LOL..a more accurate description would be "bored vet fixes up old service knife for something to do". Not nearly as fetching sounding as "A Marine used a Japanese sniper femur to make handle" or some of the other ridiculous embellishments I've seen..

 

Case in point..I know one of my MK2s would probably be sold as "Theater made' or some BS..but that "theater" was Ford Motor Company, in the 60's or 70's!!

 

My grandfather (USN '52-'56 LCVP Coxswain) said salt water had destroyed the handle, so he made another out of a hammer handle! And had an aluminum guard and pommel...(I think this may have had a peened pommel at one time..it's the thin taller USMC on the blued blade...) but was 100% "theater made" at Ford's!! He made it very usable again, and I think that was the ONLY concern at the time. Though right before he passed..he wanted to restore the leather handle..he was a leather smith, and had cut the discs right before he passed on..so I will carry that wish out..(I learned leather craft from him as a kid)

 

I really think most of the so called theater made handles were done well after myself..I do know some were made, but I also truly believe that many were done well afterwards, when there was access to machine shops and power tools..(as many WW2/Korea vets went onto work in industrial jobs..especially here in Detroit area.)

 

Thoughts?

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Maybe! I have seen a couple with plexiglass made from Japanese Zero windshields though. That was the claim anyway,but one had Japanese symbols stamped into the interior of the material.

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Sorry for the long-winded post, but here it goes...

It is well-documented that the so-called "theater made" handles/grip scales, as well as full "theater made" knives existed and were produced during World War II. Figuring out exactly when something was made is difficult, but I would assert that the "majority" - remember a majority is just 51% - of "theater made" or "theater altered" knives out there were probably done during wartime - whether that war is WWII, Korea, Vietnam, who is to say for sure? Also, keep in mind, the "theater made" terminology is somewhat a misnomer as not all were made in the field - many of the knives described as "theater made" were actually made in the US during wartime by private individuals or groups out of scrap materials, specifically to support the war effort; shop made knives were especially popular during WWII.

Of course, there are going to be individual cases of people restoring knives to use as tools, but there was a cottage industry in the US and overseas for making whole knives and making new scales/grips for existing knives during WWII. It was so widespread that engineers, Seabees, Navy machinists, etc. had to specifically turn men away because custom-made/altered knives were in such high demand. (Look at this photo from Frank Trzaska's website: http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/No_Knives2.jpg.JPG, for example. "No Knives Made") Also, there is ample photographic evidence of "theater" knives and sheaths in use during World War II in the PTO and ETO, as well as those knives running the gamut from completely made in theater to slight alterations to existing knives.

As the assertion stands, it cannot be confirmed or denied. There were certainly knives that were made or altered after their use in military service, or made to look like "theater" knives. There are also outlandish claims made about the origin of the materials used for knives - though, sometimes those seemingly outlandish claims are true, such as from downed aircraft parts, etc. But, the record shows that the so-called "theater made" or "theater altered" knife existed and was used by soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines during World War II and other conflicts.

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There is a post already on this forum showing many WW2 sailors carrying plexiglass glass handled knives. There also is an article written during WW2 about the knives.

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It's not an exaggeration when they refer to many Navy ships as floating cities. Also anywhere the military in general went they had to set up support for their equipment. This required the presence of machines to support and repair their aircraft and vehicles. If there was down time, and there often was, that and good old American desire for opportunity would inspire commerce.

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I know shipboard would be the best bet for replacement handles.(or even full fabs) .I worked in the Shipfitter shop on CVN-73..we HTs were the metal workers, and our shop was right next to the Machine Shop. (and we were good buds with the MRs (Machinery Repairman, who were also in R Division) ..so I would the first to believe a NAVY knife COULD have been done on board. (or even a hook up job for a Marine) We made all kinds of stuff! (best being a tubular bumper for a Jeep! My buddy and I carried it off the pier telling the brow watch that it was a section of the CHT system we cut out and it was going to the dumpster!) We had a Buffalo stamping machine, drop shears, finger brakes, MIG, TIG, arc, gas welders, plasma cutters, oxy/acetylene rigs, band saws, pedestal grinders...and TONS (literally) of steel plate of several thicknesses, sheet metal, pipe and angle iron..any and every thing needed to work with metal..and that was just a carrier, Destroyer and Sub Tenders were WAY more equipped! My rate was directly descended from the Metalsmith, which became Shipfitter, which then became Hull Maintenance Tech in 1972.

 

Just hard to prove without solid provenance. I believe it was done..but I also think many were done after the war, like my grandfathers.

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Kris,

I would agree that some may have been made, or modified, post-war, as you have provided first hand knowledge of, but I also believe it was extremely wide spread during WW2 as well. I offer you this letter to the editor from a 1944 issue of Naval Aviation New, a bi-monthly publication at that time. It was sent in by the CO of Marine Corps Air Station Mojave and shows examples of some knives made at the bases' A&R (assembly and repair) Department, where they worked on aircraft. In a mechanized war, mobile machine shops would have been everywhere the troops went, as well as with motor pools, Seabees, aircraft units, fleet units, shore bases, etc.

Regards, Paul

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Kris,

I would agree that some may have been made, or modified, post-war, as you have provided first hand knowledge of, but I also believe it was extremely wide spread during WW2 as well. I offer you this letter to the editor from a 1944 issue of Naval Aviation New, a bi-monthly publication at that time. It was sent in by the CO of Marine Corps Air Station Mojave and shows examples of some knives made at the bases' A&R (assembly and repair) Department, where they worked on aircraft. In a mechanized war, mobile machine shops would have been everywhere the troops went, as well as with motor pools, Seabees, aircraft units, fleet units, shore bases, etc.

Regards, Paul

 

Nice!

 

Yep, I figured some I've seen to be USN made, we certainly had everything needed to do do!

 

Cooler yet, I have a hacksaw blade made knife (also from Ford Motor Company LOL) my gramps made while he was at Ford.

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This one was made in theater, I believe. He was stationed to Pearl Harbor about a month after the attack. I don't know where he went from there.

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​In so many cases when it comes to our observations and answers to our questions, it is so vital to actually have on overall working knowledge of the war. It really adds perspective. On the Macro, advanced bases were established all over the Pacific . These bases would include storage faculties along with all types of maintenance structures. In regards to the US Navy, and especially where airfields are located, there was also a compliment of repair facilities. CASU and ACORN would establish segregated shops designated as Propeller shop, Engine shop, Sheet Metal shop, Machine shop, Carpenter shop and so on. There were also floating repair ships often referred to as tenders. Aircraft carriers also had a complete compliment of repair facilities as well. The same applies to the US Army. Once overseas, these advanced bases would make repairs from aircraft, vehicles, to mess kits , all in the combat zone to keep the war machine serviced. When you see Island images you always almost see hundreds of Quonset huts, these are for storage but most importantly they are repair shops of all kinds.

here are some examples:

 

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As evidenced by many groupings of sailors, Marines and Army personnel have trinkets that are best described as locally made. In the down time, these individuals at these shops made and sold items to the abundance of service men that passed through the area. Many cases these shops are in tents on some of these tropical islands, Making knives would be a breeze to many of these skilled craftsman and a nice added income to boot!

 

This is AAF but just an idea of a propeller shop, a representative of a repair facility.

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​To extend things a little further, here is a mobile repair truck. This helps lend a perspective on those so called "field repairs". Being mobile, these repair trucks could be close to front line troops. Items come back and get repaired then placed back into a supply pool. These same trucks could make modifications to knives as well, even on a personal basis where troops have access when relieved of front line duties.

 

post-56-0-41249800-1516552236_thumb.jpg

 

 

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Thanks, so is there anything on the blade, or does it just look that way in the picture?

The blade looks like the picture; no pitting, but the discoloration is pretty uniform. Here's a closer picture with the Ka-bar marking.

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Great points!

 

Having been a Shipfitter on a carrier, I know that'd be the first place possible, but cool to know about the land repair shops too!

 

I guess my main thing is how would you know if someone wanted to buy one that it was actually done during the war, or if sellers take one done post war and try to pass it off as done in one of these shops or on board a ship?

 

Having a post war made one had got me thinking too hard about it I guess..

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