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Wife's Treasures....Japanese Battle Flags


Thaddeus
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A few years back my (then) girlfriend asked me what I wanted for Christmas. I've been putting a small IJA display together and wanted to get a nice hinomaru yosegaki and frame it. When I showed her a picture of one she says "I have seen that before. I think my grandmother gave me one of my grandfather's". You can imagine my surprise when she went to her room and brought these out. Meanwhile I could barely contain my excitement. When I told her what little knowledge i know on these flags, she was happy and kept saying I never knew what it was. These flags were brought back by SSG James Thomas Williams from the PTO. Unfortunately he passed away when my wife was young and no one really knows where these were captured from. From the very limited research I have done on him, it appears that he was an Army mortarman serving in the Pacific. Does anyone know where I can find information on his service records? I am sure that I can get his service number or social at some point if it is needed. I want to get these flags framed for her and display them. Any recommendations on how to frame these things?? The Type 99 was brought back from the Aleutians Campaign by SSG Charles Norbeck who is a distant family member of mine.

Thad

post-156428-0-34991400-1516042754_thumb.jpg

 

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"Any recommendations on how to frame these things??"

 

​This will doubtless be way more opinion than anyone needs to have, but, here goes. I worked in art museums as a curator most of my long career, so framing of 2D artifacts is a high interest.

 

Rule #1 - whatever you do, frame them with UV filtered glazing, to protect them from fading. Textiles, especially ones that have any degree of red color in them, are what we call fugitive, inherent vice, very susceptible to fading.

 

UV glass or plastic can be rather expensive. However, if you ask the framer about options to choose from, one can find the price level that is within reason. It can cost $300+ each, or it can cost $50+ each, in other words.

 

The only other possible useful suggestion to offer would be to make sure there is a little spacer between the inner frame and the flag(s) which would be mounted (not with adhesive of any kind!) on a neutral pH backing board. I myself would avoid matting them. It is best to keep the flag(s) from touching the glazing. I cannot tell from the photos if the flags have been dyed, or if the pigment used was silk-screened or even painted on. In the latter cases, even more reason to make totally sure they do not touch the glazing at all - because over time there would be a risk of the imagery pulling away from the textile; changes in temperature, exposure to heat or moisture > that sort of thing.

 

Those are some basic ideas, again not being able to physically see or handle the flags myself in person.

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Wow! If I were you, I'd make up an illustrated want list and hand it to her. never know what else she may have tucked away somewhere!

 

Mikie

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Wow, could you be any luckier? I'm sure if I made such a request to my wonderful wife the answer would be more along the lines of "... yeah, you got hope". I love those type 99's. Is the sling original?

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Thanks for the advice gents! I have tried seeing if her grandmother knew anything else about his service record but she doesnt know much more than the fact that he was in the army unfortunately.

 

Sundance - The sling is original to the rifle. I posted a thread on it a few years ago but I am not sure if it is still here. I will look to see if I can find its hyperlink and then I will post it.

 

Thad

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Those are great looking bringacks for the family! Great advice from Bluehawk to keep them looking good and safe. You should be able to find the service information for your wife’s grandfather. Here’s a couple of links that could help.

 

 

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/research-veteran

https://www.archives.gov/research/military/veterans/online

 

Frank

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Those are great looking bringacks for the family! Great advice from Bluehawk to keep them looking good and safe. You should be able to find the service information for your wife’s grandfather. Here’s a couple of links that could help.

 

 

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/research-veteran

https://www.archives.gov/research/military/veterans/online

 

Frank

 

Frank,

Thank you so much for those sources. I will check them out today.

 

Thad

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"Any recommendations on how to frame these things??"

 

​This will doubtless be way more opinion than anyone needs to have, but, here goes. I worked in art museums as a curator most of my long career, so framing of 2D artifacts is a high interest.

 

Rule #1 - whatever you do, frame them with UV filtered glazing, to protect them from fading. Textiles, especially ones that have any degree of red color in them, are what we call fugitive, inherent vice, very susceptible to fading.

 

UV glass or plastic can be rather expensive. However, if you ask the framer about options to choose from, one can find the price level that is within reason. It can cost $300+ each, or it can cost $50+ each, in other words.

 

The only other possible useful suggestion to offer would be to make sure there is a little spacer between the inner frame and the flag(s) which would be mounted (not with adhesive of any kind!) on a neutral pH backing board. I myself would avoid matting them. It is best to keep the flag(s) from touching the glazing. I cannot tell from the photos if the flags have been dyed, or if the pigment used was silk-screened or even painted on. In the latter cases, even more reason to make totally sure they do not touch the glazing at all - because over time there would be a risk of the imagery pulling away from the textile; changes in temperature, exposure to heat or moisture > that sort of thing.

 

Those are some basic ideas, again not being able to physically see or handle the flags myself in person.

 

Bluehawk,

thank you so much for your response. I have been in contact with a local Michaels store that says that they can mount them. I am stationed at Fort Campbell so they say that they actually get a lot of flags to get mounted. If I choose to go that route, I will have them mount one of the flags that I have that does not have any family connection to it to check the quality of their products. Thanks again for your advice!

 

Thad

 

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Brian Dentino

Thad, I used Michaels locally to me to frame a signed Japanese flag. If I recall it cost me about $300 (10+ years ago) and they did a very nice job. UV glass, protective spacers, etc. It is heavy though so I have to be careful where I hang it that it is secure enough to hold it. Nice flags and 99 BTW!

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Thad, I used Michaels locally to me to frame a signed Japanese flag. If I recall it cost me about $300 (10+ years ago) and they did a very nice job. UV glass, protective spacers, etc. It is heavy though so I have to be careful where I hang it that it is secure enough to hold it. Nice flags and 99 BTW!

 

Brian,

Thanks for the comments! That 99 was brought back from the aleautians campaign by a family member and is the favorite rifle in my collection! I actually went to Michaels a few days ago to start getting them framed. They were having a 70% off sale so I thought it would be a good time to go. Im really fortunate I went when I did. With the discount (and an additional military discount) it was still 265 bucks! It would have been 1000 without all of those discounts! Looks like Ill only be able to get them framed when they have those type of sales! Lol.

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Wow - $1,000! Is this a case where the price gets jacked up so the discounts just bring it back to the regular price? I haven't had anything framed for several years so this may be the going rate. I just wanted to hear what people who have had such things framed recently have to say.

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Wow - $1,000! Is this a case where the price gets jacked up so the discounts just bring it back to the regular price? I haven't had anything framed for several years so this may be the going rate. I just wanted to hear what people who have had such things framed recently have to say.

 

Yeah it was pricey but we paid for the top end glass and backing. BUT I had them mount one of the flags I have that has no family connection so if they botch it then I will get my money back and will have lost one of our heirlooms. If it goes well we will probably save and get the other three knocked out at the same time (when they have 70% off again LOL)

 

Thad

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In the range of about $300 is what I would have expected at Michaels, Hobby Lobby or JoAnn's - using UV glazing, for an artifact roughly that size.

 

A private frame shop would usually come in somewhat more, and IF one can find a truly private/at-home framer, then possibly somewhat less.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well we got the final product back and I am happy. This flag was not captured by my wife's grandfather but served as the guinea pig to test the quality of their work. It turned out very nice. The issue that we ran into is the size of it and fitting them into our two bedroom apartment. Once we aren't moving every three years we and we have a house we will get the others framed.

Thad

 

post-156428-0-98697300-1517665939_thumb.jpeg

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Bluehawk - thanks for the comments mate. I am happy with it.

 

Sundance - Yes it is one sided. all of the flags that we currently have are one sided so getting them mounted isnt too big of a deal.

 

T

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