Interesting Grey-Band M-1

[stealthytyler]

It looks like Patton ordered the SeaBees to dress in Army uniforms for the crossing of the Rhine. This photo shows the navy using LCVP boats. No bands on the helmets in this photo however.

 

[stealthytyler]

Closeup:

 

[plick27]

Naval History Magazine article with some good info. Learn something new every day.

https://www.usni.org/magazines/navalhistory/2015-04/landing-troops-across-rhine

[stealthytyler]

That is a great link, plick.

[Bill47]

Plick, thanks. That's really interesting material. We should keep that handy for future use.

As for this helmet, it's impossible to know who used it or how. He could have been a later addition to the Normandy USN personnel working as SeaBees, etc. (well post-D-Day), and/or he could have been one of those sailors assigned to the supply and assistance of the Army in the march across Europe and into Germany. We'll never know without an ID or some credible provenance. But it's a really nice helmet, made more so by the mystery that surrounds its use.

[sigsaye]

I can't imagine that sailors (SeaBees?) carrying those boats up to the Rhine were firing mortars during combat with the Army. We should find out what outfit those sailors were with and whether or not they made the Normandy landings. If so, there would be extensive training months prior to the landings making it difficult for swivel bails to show up in time.

. Well, imagine what you want. They were not Sea Beas, but an assault boat unit. The Army carried their boats. They wore Army uniforms with Navy insignia. Yes, they ferried Army units across the Rine and other major rivers. They ran LCVPs and LCMs.

 

I had a friend who was part of the Beach Group landing on Normandy. He trained for 2 years for the landing.

 

Any way, believe what you want to "Believe". Sailors carried Soldiers across the Rine, and other rivers. They drew Army gear as they worked with Army Units. "Total War"

[stealthytyler]

. Well, imagine what you want. They were not Sea Beas, but an assault boat unit. The Army carried their boats. They wore Army uniforms with Navy insignia. Yes, they ferried Army units across the Rine and other major rivers. They ran LCVPs and LCMs.

 

I had a friend who was part of the Beach Group landing on Normandy. He trained for 2 years for the landing.

 

Any way, believe what you want to "Believe". Sailors carried Soldiers across the Rine, and other rivers. They drew Army gear as they worked with Army Units. "Total War"

So you believe that no Seabees took part in river crossings? I would assume they were there to help with building bridges and etc. no?

[Burning Hazard]

The reel I posted has a sign at the beginning that says "Danube", which might be referring to the Danube river. We don't actually see any rivers in that reel so I'm guessing it's footage from exercises, possibly for the upcoming crossing of the Danube river?

 

Pat

[sigsaye]

So you believe that no Seabees took part in river crossings? I would assume they were there to help with building bridges and etc. no?

. I never said that no Sea Bees took part. What I said was that the boat crews running and maintaining the assault boats were a Navy Assault Craft Unit, which is desperate from Sea Bees.

[stealthytyler]

. I never said that no Sea Bees took part. What I said was that the boat crews running and maintaining the assault boats were a Navy Assault Craft Unit, which is desperate from Sea Bees.

 

Im not sure that the term "Navy Assault Craft Unit" is the proper term. I was doing some research and Assault Craft Unit One was not formed until just after WWII and was used for the first time in 1950 during the Korean War. I am trying to find out the official name for these teams used to cross the Rhine. The article that "plick" posted on here only mentions them as Task Group 122.5 (Unit 1, Unit 2, Unit 3). I also read that sailors were ordered to teach the Army's 1120th Engineers about basic seamanship and driving boats. The Army heavily relied on these Army Engineers to ferry troops across the Rhine in certain areas on smaller craft unassisted by the Navy.

[sigsaye]

 

Im not sure that the term "Navy Assault Craft Unit" is the proper term. I was doing some research and Assault Craft Unit One was not formed until just after WWII and was used for the first time in 1950 during the Korean War. I am trying to find out the official name for these teams used to cross the Rhine. The article that "plick" posted on here only mentions them as Task Group 122.5 (Unit 1, Unit 2, Unit 3). I also read that sailors were ordered to teach the Army's 1120th Engineers about basic seamanship and driving boats. The Army heavily relied on these Army Engineers to ferry troops across the Rhine in certain areas on smaller craft unassisted by the Navy.

. Not, am I disagreeing with anything you are saying. My entire point is that, Naval units (call them what you will) worked with the Army, at least as far as the Rine, in the ETO. They used the gray band on their helmets, wore Army uniforms and gear (they were supplied by the Army), so a swivel bail helmet, while, maybe not, "D-Day", is still possible for later in the war, in the ETO.

[stealthytyler]

. Not, am I disagreeing with anything you are saying. My entire point is that, Naval units (call them what you will) worked with the Army, at least as far as the Rine, in the ETO. They used the gray band on their helmets, wore Army uniforms and gear (they were supplied by the Army), so a swivel bail helmet, while, maybe not, "D-Day", is still possible for later in the war, in the ETO.

 

Yeah, I agree that swivel bails were used late in the war by the Navy. I just wonder when the sailors that took park in the Rhine crossings arrived in England for training with the Task Group. That would give us a better idea as far as timing and if it was possible for them to have been issued swivel bails before crossing the channel to Belgium. How do you know that sailors used the grey band around their helmets for the Rhine crossing? The only evidence I have seen was in the video that was posted on this thread BUT they were being worn by an Army mortar team. Thanks for the back and forth on this... trying to work it all out!

[sigsaye]

 

Yeah, I agree that swivel bails were used late in the war by the Navy. I just wonder when the sailors that took park in the Rhine crossings arrived in England for training with the Task Group. That would give us a better idea as far as timing and if it was possible for them to have been issued swivel bails before crossing the channel to Belgium. How do you know that sailors used the grey band around their helmets for the Rhine crossing? The only evidence I have seen was in the video that was posted on this thread BUT they were being worn by an Army mortar team. Thanks for the back and forth on this... trying to work it all out!

. I used to know an old Vet. He was Beach Battalion (his guys landed at Normandy, so 6th?). He enlisted in '42. Became a Radioman and was assigned to Beach Battalion. From the time he finished RM school, he trained to land at Normandy. It was his only mission. When I knew him ( he has since passed), he didn't remember dates. He didn't even remember markings on his helmet. He remembered getting on the ship, climbing down a cargo net and getting his hands stepped on. He remembered carting 175 pounds on gear while weighing 125 himself. He remembered being scared S**tless. He remembered running down the ramp of an LCVP and taking about 5-10 steps into Normandy when he was slammed in the back and the lights went out, waking up on a hospital ship the next day.

 

But, he trained for 2 years to land at Normandy. Why would others not do the same?

[sigsaye]

 

Yeah, I agree that swivel bails were used late in the war by the Navy. I just wonder when the sailors that took park in the Rhine crossings arrived in England for training with the Task Group. That would give us a better idea as far as timing and if it was possible for them to have been issued swivel bails before crossing the channel to Belgium. How do you know that sailors used the grey band around their helmets for the Rhine crossing? The only evidence I have seen was in the video that was posted on this thread BUT they were being worn by an Army mortar team. Thanks for the back and forth on this... trying to work it all out!

. I used to know an old Vet. He was Beach Battalion (his guys landed at Normandy, so 6th?). He enlisted in '42. (He was 17), Became a Radioman and was assigned to Beach Battalion. From the time he finished RM school, he trained to land at Normandy. It was his only mission. When I knew him ( he has since passed), he didn't remember dates. He didn't even remember markings on his helmet. He remembered getting on the ship, climbing down a cargo net and getting his hands stepped on. He remembered carting 175 pounds on gear while weighing 125 himself. He remembered being scared S**tless. He remembered running down the ramp of an LCVP and taking about 5-10 steps into Normandy when he was slammed in the back and the lights went out, waking up on a hospital ship the next day.

 

But, he trained for 2 years to land at Normandy. Why would others not do the same?

[stealthytyler]

I am talking about the Rhine crossing, not Normandy. We already know the helmet paint schemes for that invasion. I too am friends with a 7th BB vet (amazing information I get out of him) and my grandfather was in a BB as well during the war. At any rate, I think we are digressing and taking over this post. It looks like a very interesting helmet and one that we will never know the true meaning. Thanks for sharing!

[sigsaye]

 

Yeah, I agree that swivel bails were used late in the war by the Navy. I just wonder when the sailors that took park in the Rhine crossings arrived in England for training with the Task Group. That would give us a better idea as far as timing and if it was possible for them to have been issued swivel bails before crossing the channel to Belgium. How do you know that sailors used the grey band around their helmets for the Rhine crossing? The only evidence I have seen was in the video that was posted on this thread BUT they were being worn by an Army mortar team. Thanks for the back and forth on this... trying to work it all out!

. Evidence, all I have are photos inbooks, which are an hour from me right now. IIRC, the "USN" was dropped to make it less conspicuous. My point is, the gray band, in the ETO, was used to designate USN ashore from Army.

 

Could someone have "Made" a gray band on some random helmet? Of course! Point is,it was the ETO mark of Navy.

[Steve D.]

This has certainly been intersting reading all these posts! Back to my original question, has anyone seen a grey band helmet that was made

by wrapping tape over a helmet, and then painting it grey? The 2 others in my collection were just grey paint over the lid.

[Bill47]

This has certainly been intersting reading all these posts! Back to my original question, has anyone seen a grey band helmet that was made

by wrapping tape over a helmet, and then painting it grey? The 2 others in my collection were just grey paint over the lid.

No, I have owned several gray-banded Navy helmets--some D-Day, some later--and I have never seen gray painted on tape.

[Steve D.]

Thanks for the response Bill ! The other Grey Band Helmet in my collection (also posted on the Forum), is named, and came with the owner's

ultra rare Blue N-1 Deck Jacket. It came from the owner's son, who claimed his dad was at D-Day. I bought this one to someday display with a set of

USN rain gear as used by landing crews.

[stealthytyler]

Well, Bill and Steve, you guys have really caught my interest. I would love to see your grey banded navy lids. Maybe we start a new thread for folks to share theirs?

[Ronnie]

Closeup:

 

Screen Shot 2018-01-02 at 9.46.03 AM.jpg

The guy just below the guy in the upper right of the picture has what appears to be a stripe around his helmet.