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Interesting Grey-Band M-1

Started by Steve D. , Jan 01 2018 02:07 PM

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#1 Steve D.

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 02:07 PM

I've had this helmet in my collection for over 15 years. It's a Swivel Bail. The grey paint is nearly identical in color to the

identified Fixed Bail, Grey Band in my collection. The band is 3 inches wide, also similar to my identified Fixed Bail.

The band was made by using wrapping some type of adhesive tape around the helmet, and then painting it " Battleship

Grey". Any thoughts?. Has anyone see this done before? It certainly looks original, but the swivel bail makes me suspicious?

 

 

 

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#2 Steve D.

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 02:08 PM

More pics...

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#3 stealthytyler

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 03:32 PM

Nice looking helmet. I am trying to understand what you said. Is the stripe painted or is it residue from an adhesive? Is the rest of the helmet painted grey? Thanks



#4 stealthytyler

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 03:34 PM

Also, is this helmet named?



#5 Steve D.

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 03:43 PM

Unfortunately, this helmet is not named. The Helmet is O.D. The band is Grey. Under the grey paint is what looks like WWII era

Medicical Tape.  So... it looks like a sailor wrapped 3 inch white tape around the helmet, and then painted the tape grey.



#6 stealthytyler

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 03:45 PM

oh ok I understand now. That is interesting. Cool looking helmet regardless! Thanks for sharing 



#7 huntssurplus

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 04:00 PM

Could be shore party, there were multiple landings in the Pacific after 1944 to keep in mind so it is possible.

 

Hunt



#8 stealthytyler

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 04:16 PM

Without a name to link provenance, it's all an assumption I suppose. I am not aware of shore parties In the PTO painting this helmet scheme.

#9 huntssurplus

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 04:21 PM

Without a name to link provenance, it's all an assumption I suppose. I am not aware of shore parties In the PTO painting this helmet scheme.

 

I agree with the provenance issue, it is all just speculation. And you might be right about the shore parties in the PTO, I have not yet found a picture with this paint scheme but I thought it could be a possibility.

 

Hunt



#10 hink441

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 04:39 PM

Looks somewhat similar to Warpath's documented USN D-Day helmet.

Why do the swivel loops cause concern?

image.jpeg

#11 huntssurplus

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 04:45 PM

Looks somewhat similar to Warpath's documented USN D-Day helmet.

Why do the swivel loops cause concern?

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

 

It is still not confirmed whether or not swivel loop m1 helmets were used on D-Day. While there are a few pictures that look like they were used it is still unconfirmed. And if they were used during D-Day they were probably quite scarce. 

 

Hunt



#12 Burning Hazard

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 05:03 PM

I was watching some WWII footage and came across this one; 99th ID soldiers in Germany with painted bands around their swivel bail helmets, they look like mortar men based on their actions.

 

Point is, painted bands around helmets doesn't always necessarily mean Navy.

 

Pat

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#13 hink441

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 05:12 PM

 
It is still not confirmed whether or not swivel loop m1 helmets were used on D-Day. While there are a few pictures that look like they were used it is still unconfirmed. And if they were used during D-Day they were probably quite scarce. 
 
Hunt


Is the OP trying to confirm the helmet's use on D-Day?? I never read that in his postings, that is why I was wondering why he was "suspicious" of the swivel loops. It appears to be a USN helmet, but the video shown by Burning Hazard is really interesting.

Chris

Edited by hink441, 01 January 2018 - 05:14 PM.


#14 Steve D.

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 05:16 PM

I remember a post that discussed swivel bails at D-Day, and said that they were used, in small numbers, and more so by the Naval units.

I don't totally discount it based on the fact that it's swivel bail, I would just be more convinced if it was fixed. The fact that the grey band 

is painted over tape is what I find to be most interesting. I'm not sure, based on the wear, how that could be faked.



#15 huntssurplus

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 05:19 PM

I was watching some WWII footage and came across this one; 99th ID soldiers in Germany with painted bands around their swivel bail helmets, they look like mortar men based on their actions.

 

Point is, painted bands around helmets doesn't always necessarily mean Navy.

 

Pat

That is interesting nice find!

 

Is the OP trying to confirm the helmet's use on D-Day?? I never read that in his postings, that is why I was wondering why he was "suspicious" of the swivel loops. It appears to be a USN helmet, but the video shown by Burning Hazard is really interesting.

Chris

Well the grey band on navy helmets were used on landings in the ETO and because swivel loop started being manufactured right before D-Day it is unknown how many were used. Since there were no other landings in the ETO after D-Day whether or not this is a navy shore party helmet is up to question. I assume that's what the OP meant is that they were unsure if it could be real because there is no provenance and the swivel loop D-Day correlation problem. 

 

Hunt



#16 hink441

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 05:30 PM

Operation Dragoon (Southern France) amphibious landings occurred in August of 1944.

Chris

#17 huntssurplus

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 05:44 PM

Operation Dragoon (Southern France) amphibious landings occurred in August of 1944.

Chris

 

To be honest, I forgot about Operation Dragoon, but still, swivel loops on M1 helmets had only been in production a few months anyway. In the end it doesn't really matter as without provenance you can never know for sure. It's all speculation

 

Hunt



#18 Steve D.

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 05:53 PM

Has anyone else seen a Grey Band helmet painted in this method?  (Paint over tape.)



#19 Burning Hazard

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 07:30 PM

Watching the video again, the guys with the painted bands were carrying boats, the film reel says "Danube" which most likely refers to the river. Odd thing is they are also operating mortars next to the boats.

 

I'm positive the bands on their helmets are grey, and I'm wondering whether OP's helmet could be related.

 

Pat

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#20 Burning Hazard

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 07:31 PM

Link to footage reel:

 



#21 stealthytyler

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 10:12 PM

Interesting footage. Reminds me of MP helmets. Did police units have a mortar section?

#22 sigsaye

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 06:56 AM

Just to interject, the gray band was only used in the ETO. And, Naval units traveled with the Army, hauling assault boats up to the Rine. So, the gray band was used by Naval units , working with Army units in the ETO for the duration of the war.

#23 sigsaye

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 06:56 AM

Just to interject, the gray band was only used in the ETO. And, Naval units traveled with the Army, hauling assault boats up to the Rine. So, the gray band was used by Naval units , working with Army units in the ETO for the duration of the war.

#24 huntssurplus

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 07:10 AM

Just to interject, the gray band was only used in the ETO. And, Naval units traveled with the Army, hauling assault boats up to the Rine. So, the gray band was used by Naval units , working with Army units in the ETO for the duration of the war.

 

I guess that means that it is very possible for the swivel loop helmet to be a navy shore party helmet, or just navy helmet. The 99th footage is real interesting though.

 

Hunt



#25 stealthytyler

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 09:34 AM

I can't imagine that sailors (SeaBees?) carrying those boats up to the Rhine were firing mortars during combat with the Army. We should find out what outfit those sailors were with and whether or not they made the Normandy landings. If so, there would be extensive training months prior to the landings making it difficult for swivel bails to show up in time. 




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