Jump to content


Pilot's Survival Knife question

Started by DaveP , Feb 19 2007 10:41 AM

  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 DaveP

DaveP
  • Members
    • Member ID: 341
  • 304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South

Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:41 AM

All,
Trying to find out more on this one. It is made by Camillus but does not have a date on the pommel. Is this unusual?? I got it from the estate of a WWII pilot who stayed in the Air Force and retired around 1965-67. Also wondering about the gray paint on the end of the pommel. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

thanks,
Dave

P.S. always looking for USAF Vietnam era patches and "party suits".

Attached Images

  • MVC_001S.JPG
  • MVC_003S.JPG
  • MVC_004S.JPG


#2 Charlie Flick

Charlie Flick

    MODERATOR

  • Moderators
    • Member ID: 68
  • 1,853 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunny Florida, USA

Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:07 AM

All,
Trying to find out more on this one. It is made by Camillus but does not have a date on the pommel. Is this unusual?? ".


Hi Dave:

That is a very nice example of the 5" Jet Pilot Knife. It is the blade marked version which was made in the early to mid 1960's. (I don't have my reference materials handy right now, but it was around 1964-65 or so.) The markings were then taken off of the ricasso and moved to the pommel sides. Dates of manufacture were added at that time. The predecessor was the 6" blade version which was also blade marked and made by Camillus and, briefly, by Marbles. The USGI 5" examples were made by Utica, Ontario, Camillus, and Milpar.

The grey paint on the pommel is correct and was applied at the factory.

Hope this helps you.

Regards,
Charlie Flick

#3 Greg Robinson

Greg Robinson

    Deceased Forum Co-Founder

  • IN MEMORIAM
    • Member ID: 4
  • 3,404 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Georgia USA

Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:26 AM

Early production of the Navy survival knife was by MARBLES ARMS CORP. and had a six inch blade and the entire knife was beautifully finished in bluing. CAMILLUS CUTLERY also produced this six inch blade version but it was parkerized. I assume the Navy dropped the MARBLES contract due to cost constraints since the CAMILLUS version had to be less expensive.

So the CAMILLUS Production was 1958 until 1962 with a six inch blade. It was marked on blade but not dated

Then in 1962 the blade was shortened to five inches and was still marked but not dated.

In Jan 1967 the markings, plus month and year of production, was moved to the hexagonal pommel.

I've always heard the battleship grey paint was to enhance visibility so the pilot could locate it in the dark. Maybe it's luminescent paint....I've never checked this out.

MILPAR, UTICA, and ONTARIO have also produced this knife. The UTICA is a rare version. MILPAR made a version with a metal hilt.

Attached Images

  • MVC_050S.JPG
  • MVC_051S.JPG
  • MVC_052S.JPG


#4 Greg Robinson

Greg Robinson

    Deceased Forum Co-Founder

  • IN MEMORIAM
    • Member ID: 4
  • 3,404 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Georgia USA

Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:05 PM

An earlier version pilot's knife made in the mid 1950's. For many years collectors considered these to be just another WW2 Navy Mk 1. Then several years ago knife collector/author Frank Trzaska uncovered data which correctly ID'd these. This example made by CAMILLUS CUTLERY and there were other makers but I don't recall who they were.

Attached Images

  • MVC_053S.JPG
  • MVC_054S.JPG


#5 gunbarrel

gunbarrel
  • Members
    • Member ID: 70
  • 6,105 posts

Posted 19 February 2007 - 01:10 PM

An earlier version pilot's knife made in the mid 1950's. For many years collectors considered these to be just another WW2 Navy Mk 1. Then several years ago knife collector/author Frank Trzaska uncovered data which correctly ID'd these. This example made by CAMILLUS CUTLERY and there were other makers but I don't recall who they were.


Greg,

From 1953-1957, Imperial and Schrade Walden made those pilot survival knives in addition to Camillus.

About the Milpar Jet Pilot Knife with the aluminum hilt, were those government issue, or were they made for the civilian market?

GB

#6 Greg Robinson

Greg Robinson

    Deceased Forum Co-Founder

  • IN MEMORIAM
    • Member ID: 4
  • 3,404 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Georgia USA

Posted 19 February 2007 - 01:33 PM

About the Milpar Jet Pilot Knife with the aluminum hilt, were those government issue, or were they made for the civilian market?
GB


Good question...and one I can't answer. I do know that MILPAR made the standard issue pilot's knife of leather and parkerized steel in addition to the aluminim version. And both were blade...not pommel...marked so must have been manufactured prior to when the spec change was implemented early in 1967. But my best guess would be to call it a knife made for the civilian market.

#7 DaveP

DaveP
  • Members
    • Member ID: 341
  • 304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South

Posted 19 February 2007 - 02:06 PM

Thanks Charlie, Greg and GB. I guess most of the ones I've seen before were later ones as they were always dated on the pommel. Now I know the real scoop and that's why this forum is so great and such a valuable tool.
As to this particular knife, it really is in near perfect shape. From the looks of it he never used it and it has just been sitting in his wife's closet for 30 plus years as he passed away in the early 70's.

thanks again,
Dave

#8 Greg Robinson

Greg Robinson

    Deceased Forum Co-Founder

  • IN MEMORIAM
    • Member ID: 4
  • 3,404 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Georgia USA

Posted 19 February 2007 - 02:20 PM

Thanks Charlie, Greg and GB. I guess most of the ones I've seen before were later ones as they were always dated on the pommel. Now I know the real scoop and that's why this forum is so great and such a valuable tool.
As to this particular knife, it really is in near perfect shape. From the looks of it he never used it and it has just been sitting in his wife's closet for 30 plus years as he passed away in the early 70's.

thanks again,
Dave


Dave

Those have become very collectible over the past ten years. The days of finding them cheap at pawn shops, flea markets, yard sales, etc are pretty much gone and when you do they're recent mfg. The so called "Nam" dated pilot's knives have risen steady in value.

#9 bayonetman

bayonetman

    MODERATOR

  • Moderators
    • Member ID: 66
  • 1,592 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West Virginia, USA

Posted 19 February 2007 - 07:50 PM

Frank Trzaska answered the question about the painted pommels some time ago as follows:

Specification MIL-K-8662D dated 15 February 1966 called for the pommel to be painted. In the spec, it cited two reasons - camouflage?? and more importantly to prevent water from entering the tang and start a rust problem. The tang was to be peened and left in place only removing the sharp edges, not ground flush. Then four additional steps were taken to pretreat, condition, prime and paint the butt and tang area.

Specification MIL-K-8662E dated 7 June 1974 changed the specification to black paint from the light blue-grey used before.

Another one of those little bits of information that Frank seems to be so good at coming up with.

#10 DaveP

DaveP
  • Members
    • Member ID: 341
  • 304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South

Posted 20 February 2007 - 05:29 PM

Well, that pretty much confirms that my knife was made in 1966 as it has the gray paint, but is not dated on pommel.
Can any of you guys recommend a good book on collecting these and other US knives? As it's not my primary collecting field, I'd like to stick to only one or two books on the subject. Thanks in advance.
Dave


P.S. Always looking for USAF Vietnam-era patches and "party suits". Buy or trade...

#11 bayonetman

bayonetman

    MODERATOR

  • Moderators
    • Member ID: 66
  • 1,592 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West Virginia, USA

Posted 21 February 2007 - 04:42 AM

There are a lot of good books, and I am sure that others will have differing opinions, but as a "first" book, I would get Military Knives, A Reference Book. This covers a lot of the US military knives in depth and is inexpensive. Many of the others are "picture books" and contain far less hard information.

It can be had (along with most books in print on US military edged items) from Frank Trzaska at his great website mentioned in a previous thread.

http://www.usmilitar...of Contents.htm

Just go to the section titled Books For Sale.

#12 gunbarrel

gunbarrel
  • Members
    • Member ID: 70
  • 6,105 posts

Posted 21 February 2007 - 08:15 PM

I agree with Bayonetman's recommendation. "Military Knives, A Reference Book" is a great value and source of information. If you are also into US bayonets, get also Gary Cunningham's American Military Bayonets of the 20th Century. It's an outstanding subject reference book by Bayonetman. My copies of those two titles are well worn from frequent use.

Edited by gunbarrel, 21 February 2007 - 08:17 PM.


#13 BOB K. RKSS

BOB K. RKSS
  • Members
    • Member ID: 283
  • 595 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Connecticut, USA

Posted 22 February 2007 - 03:10 AM

Well, that pretty much confirms that my knife was made in 1966 as it has the gray paint, but is not dated on pommel.
Can any of you guys recommend a good book on collecting these and other US knives? As it's not my primary collecting field, I'd like to stick to only one or two books on the subject. Thanks in advance.
Dave
P.S. Always looking for USAF Vietnam-era patches and "party suits". Buy or trade...

http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif >>> Must Have Book > U.S. MILITARY KNIVES, BAYONETS, & MACHETES > BOOK III ( Book 3 has everything that was in books 1 & 2 plus More) by M.H. COLE: this book shows ALL U.S. Military Blades, & Variations from 1849 to apx: 1978, & all are mechanical line drawings > showing Exact Markings, & Differences from each Maker; plus written info. Look for this & other collecting books on www.Amazon.com > for new & used copies; at the lowest prices.

#14 DaveP

DaveP
  • Members
    • Member ID: 341
  • 304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South

Posted 22 February 2007 - 04:54 PM

Thanks to all for the recommendations!! :)


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


In Memory of Co-Founder GREG MILLS ROBINSON, a.k.a. "Marine-KaBar"
(February 17, 1949 - March 5, 2011)