? on WWI Marine Victory Medal Clasps

[Ivydiv]

I see a 5 bar Victory Medal listed on Ebay with the following clasps: Champaign-Marne, Aisne-Marne, St. Mihiel, Meuse-Argonne, and Defensive Sector. My question is would the Champaign-Marne clasp be correct on a Marine medal? I cannot post Ebay item, but would like to know if the clasp would be correct. Thanks in advance. Dave

[USMCR79]

The 2nd Division - 4th (Marine) Brigade was entitled to the Aisne clasp in lieu of Champagne-Marne - the other 4 would be the same

 

Bill

[Ivydiv]

When looking at the major battle clasps the Aisne battle was 27 May 1918 to 5 June 1918 and the Champaign-Marne was 15 July 1918 to 18 July 1918. Slightly different dates. So the Marine medal should have the Aisne clasp instead of the Champaign-Marne clasp along with the other 4 clasps?

[USMCR79]

Correct

[Ivydiv]

Thank you for the information. I like WWI stuff, but don't run across WWI Marine items very often. I will make a note of this information. Thanks again.Dave

[warguy]

WWI Marine items are relatively rare and very hotly sought after. The Victory medals with correct bars come along every so often though and can be had without too much trouble. Good luck

[uscollector]

According to a list I have a copy of, those 5 clasps would be for the 26th Division and the 42nd Division as well as some units of other divisions and air service units. It is a very desirable medal.

[Johnnymac]

Everyone talks about the Marines and this Division, and that Division. But the troops who could and would recieved up to 10 clasps on their Victory Medal were the Ambulance sections and the Motor Transportation Corps. It was also the Balloonists and the Signal Corps Air Service who were under fire from both air and ground, along with the daily artillery and machine gun fire, and the extremely active enemy snipers as well as those men who dodged enemy fire to truck supplies and ammo to the front or to get food to the troops in the trenches on a daily basis. There was no cease fire for the men from the Ambulance sections who

dashed out from covered positions to help a fallen comrade. Their Victory medals are very rare and very desirable.

[warguy]

While I certainly appreciate the info on the clasps, who was awarded, how many, etc., the OP simply asked what clasps are appropriate for the Marines. To suggest the Marines or some divisions get all the glory when others have more clasps on their Victory medal as suggested is simply ignoring history. There is no doubt a lot of our guys "Over There" saw a lot of action, including balloonists and signal corps, transport corps, flyers, ambulance service and others. But read just a little bit about Belleauwood and more importantly Mont Blanc, and you realize very quickly the Marines and the Second Division were very much in the thick of it, and saw some of the toughest fighting of the war. October 4th, at Mont Blanc was the bloodiest day of the war for the US, and the fifth and sixth Marines were the spearhead. Take Soissons in July into account, and the push to the Meuse river November 1-11, St. Mihiel in August and five Victory clasps or not, the Marines and the whole of the Second Division have no reasons to apologize for being "talked about a lot". For me, a Victory medal attributed to a hard fought combat Marine of WWI, is worth a lot more than 6 or 7 bars on a Victory medal for some one in the transportation corps. I understand the market values may not dictate that, but I collect items for their historical value, the stories they tell, etc. Now I am not bashing the transportation corps here at all, I just don't collect that unit, and am not so interested in the number and types of bars on a ribbon as the hard won esprit of the unit it represents. If I remember correctly, the Second Division, including the Marines, left the war with more casualties than any other unit. Perhaps the value of a Victory medal belonging to an ambulance crew member is more related to the few numbers of individuals assigned to that service and scarcity of one of those medals with a high number of battle honors and less to the risks that individual took during the war. There is no doubt there are a rather large number of Second Division Victory medals to be found, as there were a large number of individuals assigned to this division. If you wrote the book in your Avatar, I sure appreciate your contribution to the collecting hobby, and Merry Christmas. Maybe I am a bit overly defensive of the Marines in WWI.

[Johnnymac]

In doing my book I found many other facts listed in other artuor's books, like:

 

This is from the Report of the Adjutant General 1920-21,

 

Foreign decorations awarded to organizations of the United Sates Army. Up to the close of the last fiscal year, the French Government had awarded the fourragere, or should cord, to 22 organizations of the United States Army, including the three United State Marine Corps transferred from naval service to service under United States Army command.

 

Under the regulations of the French Army the fourragere is awarded in the colors of the French medaille miltaire (green and yellow cord) The Médaille militaire is a military decoration of the French Republic for other ranks for meritorious service and acts of bravery in action against an enemy force., such organizations as have received four such Citations in Orders of the Army.

 

French croix de guerre (green and red cord) The Croix de guerre may either be awarded as an individual or unit award to those soldiers who distinguish themselves involving combat with the enemy to such organizations as have received two such Citations in Orders of the Army.

 

 

Four citations: (green and yellow)

Army Ambulance Service Section No. 646

 

Two citations: (green and red)

Ninth Infantry,

Sixteen Infantry,

Eighteen Infantry,

Twenty-third Infantry,

Twenty-eighth Infantry,

One hundred and third,

Ninth Infantry,

Sixteen Infantry,

Eighteen Infantry,

Twenty-third Infantry,

Twenty-eighth Infantry,

One hundred and third,

Three hundred and seventy Infantry Regiment (colored),

Aero Squadron (formerly the Lafayette Escadrille),

First Machine Gun Battalion,

Second Machine Gun Battalion.

Third Machine Gun Battalion,

Army Ambulance Service Section No. 539,

Army Ambulance Service Section No. 625,

Fifth Artillery, Sixth Artillery.

Seventh Artillery,

First Engineers,

Second Engineers,

Second Aero and Field Signal Battalion,

Sixth Machine Gun Battalion (USMC),

Fifth Regiment (USMC),

Sixth Regiment (USMC).

 

 

 

I come from a family of Marines, Dad and Grandfather, uncles and cousins.

[bobgee]

Probably redundant but summing up, the typical 2nd Division, 4th Brigade Marine who was with them from start to finish earned 5 clasps for his Victory medal - Aisne, Aisne-Marne, St. Mihiel, Meuse-Argonne & Defensive Sector. Not every Marine in France served exclusively with the 4th Brigade but the very vast majority did. Service in other sectors affect the battle clasps awarded and can occasionally be confusing. JohnnyMac did a great job in documenting and telling the story of the WWI Victory Medal. Semper Fi! Bobgee

[warguy]

Thanks JohnnyMac.