Jump to content


Gun Show Find: Cal. .30 M1 Incendiary Ammo - Sealed Box

Started by usmce4 , Dec 02 2017 12:12 PM

  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 usmce4

usmce4
  • Members
    • Member ID: 168,413
  • 230 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PA, USA

Posted 02 December 2017 - 12:12 PM

Picked this up at a Gun Show today. As far as I'm concerned this is the Holy Grail of wartime 30-06's. It's the first box I've ever seen and it's SEALED too!

Does anybody else have any of these? I'd be curious to know.

Art

Attached Images

  • Incendiary Box - Copy.jpg


#2 lambo35

lambo35
  • Members
    • Member ID: 31,437
  • 301 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spearfish, SD.

Posted 02 December 2017 - 12:42 PM

Very nice pick up. I agree with your assessment.

 

Chuck



#3 Austringer

Austringer
  • Members
    • Member ID: 3,718
  • 298 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta, GA

Posted 02 December 2017 - 02:41 PM

picked up a few sealed boxes many years ago at a gunshow. pretty cool items.

#4 Sgt. BARney

Sgt. BARney
  • Members
    • Member ID: 160,365
  • 272 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:'Murica

Posted 02 December 2017 - 05:33 PM

Nice score - I am still looking for some...



#5 pzjgr

pzjgr
  • Members
    • Member ID: 2,803
  • 511 posts

Posted 03 December 2017 - 07:20 AM

I have a box of Eau Claire...they were the hardest to find of the striped box  variety for sure...I picked up 4 boxes at a show, sold 3, kept 1....I have a pretty large collection of boxed US ammo I picked up over the years, all sorts of oddball stuff too...I should take some pics someday...

 

 

Attached Images

  • 20171202_204000.jpg


#6 Charlie Flick

Charlie Flick

    MODERATOR

  • Moderators
    • Member ID: 68
  • 2,381 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunny Florida, USA

Posted 03 December 2017 - 10:41 AM



Does anybody else have any of these? 

 

Yep.  This one is another Eau Claire Ordnance Plant example from Lot 28110.  It is sealed and I have shrink-wrapped it to help preserve the graphics.

 

Cal 30 M1 Incendiary Eau Claire Ord Plantbox ed 2.jpg

 

This stuff is very scarce.   The reason for that is probably due to the short production life of the M1 .30 Cal. Incendiary round, as described below.

 

This ammunition was primarily intended for aircraft use.   According to the "History of Modern U.S. Small Arms Ammunition" by Hackley, Wooden and Scranton it was determined in 1939 that Tracer ammunition had little incendiary effect.  In 1940 the Army requested of the Ordnance Dept. that it develop .30 and .50 Incendiary ammunition for use against both ground and aerial targets.

 

Frankford Arsenal undertook these efforts but had little initial success in developing an effective Incendiary round.  In late 1940 the US obtained drawings of the British .303 Mark VI Incendiary round.  Adapting this design to US practices and production methods proved difficult.  Remington was also working on a .50 Incendiary round at the same time. After much testing and re-design the M1 Incendiary round was approved and went into production at Frankford Arsenal in August, 1942.

 

The M1 Incendiary was standardized for aircraft use and was typically linked in the ratio of 2 rounds of Incendiary to 2 rounds of AP and 1 of Tracer. 

 

Mass production was initiated in 1942.  I have only observed M1 Incendiary made at Eau Claire and Denver and have not run across any of the FA made stuff. It is entirely possible that it was also made elsewhere but I have not encountered any.  FA reached peak production in the Spring of 1943 making 230,000 rounds per day.

 

Production of the M1 Incendiary was halted in 1943 after about 250,000,000 rounds were produced.  About a third of that went to Allies under Lend Lease.  

 

The reason for the halt in production was due to the USAAF's decision to move to all .50 machine guns in aircraft and away from the .30.  Thus, the .30 M1 Incendiary was only manufactured for a year or so before it was discontinued.  While many millions were made not many boxed examples survive today.

 

Regards,

Charlie



#7 usmce4

usmce4
  • Members
    • Member ID: 168,413
  • 230 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PA, USA

Posted 03 December 2017 - 11:38 AM

 

Yep.  This one is another Eau Claire Ordnance Plant example from Lot 28110.  It is sealed and I have shrink-wrapped it to help preserve the graphics.

 

attachicon.gifCal 30 M1 Incendiary Eau Claire Ord Plantbox ed 2.jpg

 

This stuff is very scarce.   The reason for that is probably due to the short production life of the M1 .30 Cal. Incendiary round, as described below.

 

This ammunition was primarily intended for aircraft use.   According to the "History of Modern U.S. Small Arms Ammunition" by Hackley, Wooden and Scranton it was determined in 1939 that Tracer ammunition had little incendiary effect.  In 1940 the Army requested of the Ordnance Dept. that it develop .30 and .50 Incendiary ammunition for use against both ground and aerial targets.

 

Frankford Arsenal undertook these efforts but had little initial success in developing an effective Incendiary round.  In late 1940 the US obtained drawings of the British .303 Mark VI Incendiary round.  Adapting this design to US practices and production methods proved difficult.  Remington was also working on a .50 Incendiary round at the same time. After much testing and re-design the M1 Incendiary round was approved and went into production at Frankford Arsenal in August, 1942.

 

The M1 Incendiary was standardized for aircraft use and was typically linked in the ratio of 2 rounds of Incendiary to 2 rounds of AP and 1 of Tracer. 

 

Mass production was initiated in 1942.  I have only observed M1 Incendiary made at Eau Claire and Denver and have not run across any of the FA made stuff. It is entirely possible that it was also made elsewhere but I have not encountered any.  FA reached peak production in the Spring of 1943 making 230,000 rounds per day.

 

Production of the M1 Incendiary was halted in 1943 after about 250,000,000 rounds were produced.  About a third of that went to Allies under Lend Lease.  

 

The reason for the halt in production was due to the USAAF's decision to move to all .50 machine guns in aircraft and away from the .30.  Thus, the .30 M1 Incendiary was only manufactured for a year or so before it was discontinued.  While many millions were made not many boxed examples survive today.

 

Regards,

Charlie

 

Good scoop Charlie, Thanks!

I also shrink-wrap them. I had a professional grade shrink-wrap machine I used in my business, and when I retired that was one of the things I didn't sell off - expressly for my ammo box collecting. The only problem with that is when I try to sell or trade, you have to take the shrink wrap off again to prove to the buyer it's really a sealed box.

Art
 


Edited by usmce4, 03 December 2017 - 11:39 AM.


#8 usmce4

usmce4
  • Members
    • Member ID: 168,413
  • 230 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PA, USA

Posted 03 December 2017 - 12:10 PM

These are .50 incendiaries and .30 APIs  Neither of which is very common.  I've never seen the .50s boxed. I have seen the .30 APIs boxed however although they are more common than the .30 incendiaries, everyone I come across who has them boxed wants silly prices for them.  The guy I got the incendiaries from yesterday said he may have some API boxes, and his prices are reasonable, so I may have some soon.

Art

Oh, forgot to mention re the shrink-wrapping. It also helps to keep the points from coming thru the bottom of the box, especially on ones where the bottom has already started to give way.

Attached Images

  • 740 - Copy.jpg


#9 Dirt Detective

Dirt Detective
  • Members
    • Member ID: 2,677
  • 1,448 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West Coast

Posted 03 December 2017 - 05:27 PM

Here is the plain wrapped Eau Claire box...I assume these were before the stripped boxes?? Not as good looking that's for sure.

Eau Claire.jpg

 

 



#10 silverplate

silverplate
  • Members
    • Member ID: 162,630
  • 81 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dry Ridge, KY

Posted 03 December 2017 - 06:57 PM

The plain labels actually came after the striped labels. I have seen plain labels for most of the wartime ordnance plants, and they usually have a late war lot number. Regulations contained in TM9-1990 "Small Arms Ammunition" from 1947 still called for the striped labels. There must be a change order somewhere, but I've not seen it yet.

 

.30 Caliber Incendiary was only made at Frankford Arsenal, Denver and Eau Claire Ordnance Plants. As stated earlier, it was phased out when the USAAF standardized the .50 caliber for aircraft. I have a box of .30 cal. incendiary from Frankford and a box of .50 cal. API from Remington. The .30 cal. incendiary from Eau Claire has proven to be elusive for me.

Attached Images

  • Incendiary FA.jpg
  • 50BMG API.jpg


#11 G-Company

G-Company
  • Members
    • Member ID: 161,446
  • 54 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hill 75,9

Posted 04 December 2017 - 02:18 PM

usmce4

 

USMCE4: "Does anybody else have any of these?"

 

 

 

Well what about this one?

 

 image-usforum.jpg

 

 

Lot........

 



#12 silverplate

silverplate
  • Members
    • Member ID: 162,630
  • 81 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dry Ridge, KY

Posted 05 December 2017 - 03:25 AM

Here's my box of Denver. Interesting how the lot number is the same on all the boxes, and dates the rounds to mid-1943 manufacture.

Attached Images

  • Incendiary Den.jpg


#13 G-Company

G-Company
  • Members
    • Member ID: 161,446
  • 54 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hill 75,9

Posted 05 December 2017 - 04:32 AM

Hello Silverplate
Is there a list of the lotnumbers availible on the forum somewhere?
I would like to date my other boxes.
Thanks in advance

#14 usmce4

usmce4
  • Members
    • Member ID: 168,413
  • 230 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PA, USA

Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:08 PM

Hello Silverplate
Is there a list of the lotnumbers availible on the forum somewhere?
I would like to date my other boxes.
Thanks in advance

 

I would appreciate that info as well

 

Art
 



#15 mdk0911

mdk0911
  • Members
    • Member ID: 80,886
  • 1,200 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eastern PA

Posted 06 December 2017 - 09:06 AM

How about AP Incendiary vs Regular Incendiary

 

which is rarer 



#16 usmce4

usmce4
  • Members
    • Member ID: 168,413
  • 230 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PA, USA

Posted 06 December 2017 - 11:24 AM

How about AP Incendiary vs Regular Incendiary

 

which is rarer 

I'm not an expert, but in .50's I've got API's and APIT's by the belt, but I only have 2 single incendiary.

In .30's I don't HAVE any boxes of API's but I've seen several and I have some loose, but over the years the only .30 incendiary I've ever actually seen (not in a picture) is the one box I started this thread with. - Correction, I did see a clip of incendiary, but he wanted a kings ransom for it. (pic below)

 

Hope this helps, and would love to hear numbers on the subject of anybody has that info.

 

Art

Attached Images

  • CLIPS 20171007_150837 - Copy.jpg

Edited by usmce4, 06 December 2017 - 11:29 AM.


#17 mdk0911

mdk0911
  • Members
    • Member ID: 80,886
  • 1,200 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eastern PA

Posted 06 December 2017 - 03:26 PM

here's my Incendiary - the box is opened and in fair to good condition

Attached Images

  • USGI 30-06 Incendiary 17rds 1.jpg


#18 mdk0911

mdk0911
  • Members
    • Member ID: 80,886
  • 1,200 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eastern PA

Posted 06 December 2017 - 03:27 PM

pics

Attached Images

  • USGI 30-06  Incendiary 17rds  4.jpg
  • USGI 30-06 Incendiary 17rds  2.jpg


#19 Dirt Detective

Dirt Detective
  • Members
    • Member ID: 2,677
  • 1,448 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West Coast

Posted 08 December 2017 - 07:34 AM

The plain box I posted are head stamped  EW 43



#20 illinigander

illinigander
  • New Members
    • Member ID: 168,596
  • 26 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Milan, MI

Posted 08 December 2017 - 11:33 AM

I also have a sealed box- same lot number as the one that started this thread.  My single round has HS: DEN 42.  Good to see all the rest.

Illinigander



#21 blitzkrieg gsd

blitzkrieg gsd
  • Members
    • Member ID: 10,550
  • 1,106 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Louisville Ky

Posted 08 December 2017 - 04:39 PM

Have you guys fired any of these rounds? I have fired a few of them myself. You have to have a hard target to see them work. I shot them at a steel plate and got a good show


2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users


In Memory of Co-Founder GREG MILLS ROBINSON, a.k.a. "Marine-KaBar"
(February 17, 1949 - March 5, 2011)