Jump to content


A Recap Of My 2017 Sword Acquisitions

Started by Horseclover , Dec 02 2017 07:10 AM

  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

#1 Horseclover

Horseclover
  • Members
    • Member ID: 55,097
  • 347 posts
  • Location:Nipmuc USA

Posted 02 December 2017 - 07:10 AM

I had honestly meant to not buy anything this year but a birthday and early stocking stuffers found me adopting a trio of swords.

 

A new old stock British made sabre retailed by the Wolf family of NYC during the 1820s.  It was my birthday after all.

 

IMG_0425_2_600x400.jpg

wolfe17g_600x400.jpg

 

Virtually untouched.  This is a second sword I have bought from J&J on ebay that seems to have never been carried, as if they miraculously fell off a clean shelf after 200 years.

 

Stocking stuffers to follow.

 

Cheers

 

GC 



#2 Horseclover

Horseclover
  • Members
    • Member ID: 55,097
  • 347 posts
  • Location:Nipmuc USA

Posted 02 December 2017 - 07:23 AM

I guess the second more of a trick o' treat treat.  An Ames 1833 dated m1832 foot artillery gladius.  One of the Newburyport castings from Huse.  Someone had heavily cold blued it and I am still in the process of getting down to the steel.

 

husee.jpg

huseg_600x400.jpg

husec_600x400.jpg

 

 

 

Attached Images

  • husea_600x400.jpg


#3 Allan H.

Allan H.
  • Members
    • Member ID: 151
  • 4,713 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Topeka, Kansas

Posted 02 December 2017 - 07:39 AM

Nice swords. Did you know that lemon juice will pull cold blue off of metal? I've fixed a few "re-blued" pieces by using it. There is also no potential damage to the metal or concern about spilling or inhaling chemical fumes!

 

Allan



#4 Horseclover

Horseclover
  • Members
    • Member ID: 55,097
  • 347 posts
  • Location:Nipmuc USA

Posted 02 December 2017 - 07:39 AM

I am being a bit overwhelmed by the resizer but my early stocking stuffer is an Ames militia sword from about 1840.  This is an early one, with the simple guard similar to the Portsmouth Artillery examples of Peterson and Hamilton book descriptions. 

 

1117b.jpg

1117_1_75.jpg

 

This is an etched blade with a quiver and sword crossed under the eagle and a tall liberty pole etched on the obverse.

 

I have a sibling with silver wash and also a silvered brass scabbard so I now have another in a metal scabbard.  The old leather ones hard enough to come by.


Edited by Horseclover, 02 December 2017 - 07:52 AM.


#5 Horseclover

Horseclover
  • Members
    • Member ID: 55,097
  • 347 posts
  • Location:Nipmuc USA

Posted 02 December 2017 - 07:43 AM

1117f.jpg

 

These were rather crudely etched.



#6 Horseclover

Horseclover
  • Members
    • Member ID: 55,097
  • 347 posts
  • Location:Nipmuc USA

Posted 02 December 2017 - 07:51 AM

Nice swords. Did you know that lemon juice will pull cold blue off of metal? I've fixed a few "re-blued" pieces by using it. There is also no potential damage to the metal or concern about spilling or inhaling chemical fumes!

 

Allan

I broke down and got some Casey Birch remover and even then slow going.  I will post an after at some point, I have been generally overworked lately, from one specialist to another.  The old bluing really layered on and even tacky after however many decades it had been.  It was priced accordingly, even for one as old as these first batches.  There was scale rust developing within he layer of blue.

 

This one has a M but not MS, so I am not sure if it was one meant for Massachusetts.

 

Cheers

 

GC



#7 sundance

sundance
  • Members
    • Member ID: 67,879
  • 1,701 posts

Posted 02 December 2017 - 08:19 AM

A great haul. That Wolf sword is a beauty.



#8 Horseclover

Horseclover
  • Members
    • Member ID: 55,097
  • 347 posts
  • Location:Nipmuc USA

Posted 02 December 2017 - 09:22 AM

It is a beauty

 

IMG_0428_3_50_2_90.jpg

 

 

 



#9 Horseclover

Horseclover
  • Members
    • Member ID: 55,097
  • 347 posts
  • Location:Nipmuc USA

Posted 02 December 2017 - 09:31 AM

I think I have the sizer figured out.

 

IMG_0432_40.jpg

 

It has much the same feel as my Starr 1818, as far as handling goes.  With a 32" blade, as long as the old British 1796 and about the same weight, the dynamics are a bit different, as the distal taper is less radical when compared to many 18th century swords.  Like so many, seemingly toy like to flourish.

 

Cheers

 

GC

 

 



#10 Horseclover

Horseclover
  • Members
    • Member ID: 55,097
  • 347 posts
  • Location:Nipmuc USA

Posted 02 December 2017 - 09:41 AM

In context with others out on the town in public display

 

IMG_0462_2_40.jpg

 

It gets lost behind some brutes.  Oh my, I be sideways! oh well. It was a great weekend to begin the fall season.


Edited by Horseclover, 02 December 2017 - 09:42 AM.


#11 tdogchristy90

tdogchristy90
  • Members
    • Member ID: 13,708
  • 323 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 02 December 2017 - 09:44 AM

I'm really liking the foot artillery gladius as well as the "first battle flag of the US". :)

#12 Horseclover

Horseclover
  • Members
    • Member ID: 55,097
  • 347 posts
  • Location:Nipmuc USA

Posted 02 December 2017 - 09:47 AM

Actually sweltering hot in RI that weekend close to 90 f

 

IMG_0456_1_40.jpg



#13 Horseclover

Horseclover
  • Members
    • Member ID: 55,097
  • 347 posts
  • Location:Nipmuc USA

Posted 02 December 2017 - 09:58 AM



I'm really liking the foot artillery gladius as well as the "first battle flag of the US". :)

A sword I had on lists for years and years.  As a bottom of the barrel collector, this one was bartered relatively cheaply but commensurate with the condition issues.  It is cleaning up ok but is taking time to finish.

 

I had been forever paranoid because there are so many reproductions out there.  I figured trading off some condition for a less common date would assure finding a real deal.  It came with a nice hunk of wood as well (the wood recycled as a handy shelf for my fax machine).

 

huse_85.jpg

 

I really am about done collecting and need to exchange some of my current stuff.  I still await a white whale, just as Ahab obsessed.  One day I will find that elusive eagle pommel to fill that itchy niche.

 

Cheers

 

GC



#14 Horseclover

Horseclover
  • Members
    • Member ID: 55,097
  • 347 posts
  • Location:Nipmuc USA

Posted 02 December 2017 - 10:16 AM

There were many earlier American specific swords.  A great many of my dozens are geared to the lesser officers and troopers.  It is a junior officer eagle I still lack.  Last year's haul included a very good example of a working sword vs a pretty accessory. A wide body weeping eagle of the Osborn type.  No blade etching or frilly stuff.  Just a nice short wide blade.  A third Osborn for me.

 

1016.jpg

1016d.jpg

1016e.jpg

 

My spadroon weeper

 

oz_276.jpg

oz_a_338.jpg

 

My first Osborn during repair, clean up and blade polishing.

 

Ozzysfi.jpg

 

Everything is in storage right now, as I can't do stuff in the condo.  A suite or garage bay is next.  Trying to find something close to home.  One at a time here right now is complicated.

 

Cheers

 

GC

 

 



#15 Horseclover

Horseclover
  • Members
    • Member ID: 55,097
  • 347 posts
  • Location:Nipmuc USA

Posted 02 December 2017 - 10:29 AM

The Bedford flag makes for a nice backdrop but another of my quests is to have one custom made, truer to the original.  CRW Flags comes close but no cigar.  I need one with the pole sleeve, true to dimension and with its missing silver fringe.  My current example is cotton but has faded a good bit.

 

 

 

IMG_0364_1_40.jpg



#16 SKIPH

SKIPH

    FORUM SUBJECT ADVISOR

  • FORUM SUBJECT ADVISOR
    • Member ID: 7,773
  • 3,763 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NC

Posted 02 December 2017 - 10:31 AM

Horseclover- Love the 1832 Foot Artillery sword. I have one dtd 1853, it is also blued. Like the lemon juice idea. SKIP

#17 sundance

sundance
  • Members
    • Member ID: 67,879
  • 1,701 posts

Posted 02 December 2017 - 10:45 AM

Funny, I saw that same flag in an episode of This Old House this morning.



#18 SARGE

SARGE

    MODERATOR

  • Moderators
    • Member ID: 130
  • 2,515 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kansas City Metro

Posted 02 December 2017 - 10:47 AM

Well... for not intending to buy any swords this year you certainly went off the straight and narrow rails.  And... you did good!

 

I love the Wolfe sword.  The others are wonderful finds too.  It is time to buy when these things pop up in front of you.  



#19 reschenk

reschenk
  • Members
    • Member ID: 160,923
  • 202 posts

Posted 02 December 2017 - 11:32 AM

I have to admit I'm jealous - that Wolfe saber is a beaut!  I wish I had seen it first.  It is very similar to my latest acquisition, a brass reverse-P hilted militia saber imported by John Sayre & Co of New York.  I bought it from the Richard Bezdek estate.  It is also in good condition, but has lost the leather wrapping from the grip.

  

Sayre Horseman RB 1.jpg Sayre Horseman RB 7.jpg

 

Although our sabers are basically similar, there are some differences, most notably the width of the fullers, mine is wider, and the shape fo the ferrule, mine appears more convex.

 

Wolfe Sayre Comparison.JPG

 

Our mutual friend Eric would say this is a Solingen sword.  I'm not so sure.  Although it has many of the characteristics of the Solingen imports.  I believe Sayre imported mainly Birmingham products.  Unfortunately, I have little confidence in my ability to differentiate between these UK- and German-made militia sabers.  I would date my sword somewhat earlier than the 1820s you project for your sword.  Most of the swords I have seen with this Sayre mark, mainly Osborne and Ketland eagles, appear to be from the 1805-1815 decade, and I believe Sayre was out of the business by the 1820s, although I wouldn't bet on it.


Edited by reschenk, 02 December 2017 - 11:38 AM.


#20 Horseclover

Horseclover
  • Members
    • Member ID: 55,097
  • 347 posts
  • Location:Nipmuc USA

Posted 02 December 2017 - 12:53 PM

Funny, I saw that same flag in an episode of This Old House this morning.

Very New England.  Not many recognize it day to day.  There is some debate as to age and actual participation at Lexington but the original material and painting fascinates me.



#21 Horseclover

Horseclover
  • Members
    • Member ID: 55,097
  • 347 posts
  • Location:Nipmuc USA

Posted 02 December 2017 - 01:13 PM

Our mutual friend Eric would say this is a Solingen sword.

 

We sorted that out in the missing thread over there.  There is no way to associate either JS&Co or the Wolfe marked swords to being German sourced and Eric agreed with many of the prompts.  It is the composite eagle with the piece of tube for a grip that has him maintaining Wolfe had German connections (which to date has never been previously apparent).

 

The sword you show looks like the sword from Jan, just passing through ebay.  Sure does look like his pictures (like my Osborn spadroon, which well may be a composite).  Jan has/had three interesting sabres up.

 

Yes, I fell off the wagon but partially recouped some of my spending by moving a knife or few.  I am always behind though and also added a new dedicated document printer and a six year old camera.  My other trusty camera is celebrating 15 years.  One knife sale was more like a swap, as I had just bought another knife as well.

 

A couple of French revolutionary spear heads have my attention this weekend, as does my ebay watch list of about fifty items ;)

 

Cheers

 

GC



#22 reschenk

reschenk
  • Members
    • Member ID: 160,923
  • 202 posts

Posted 02 December 2017 - 02:17 PM



 

 

The sword you show looks like the sword from Jan, just passing through ebay.  Sure does look like his pictures (like my Osborn spadroon, which well may be a composite).  Jan has/had three interesting sabres up.

 

 

You are right, this is one of the three swords Jan listed.  He is helping Judy sell Dick's collection.  I had also really wanted the Starr 1808 he had listed and put in what I thought was a good size bid, but was out-sniped by a really motivated buyer - Jan tells me this was the last model the buyer needed to complete his Starr series:

 

M1808 Cavalry rb 1.jpg M1808 Cavalry rb 2.jpg



#23 Horseclover

Horseclover
  • Members
    • Member ID: 55,097
  • 347 posts
  • Location:Nipmuc USA

Posted 03 December 2017 - 07:05 AM

The Starr, and indeed the other two listed, kind of gave me the jaw dropping effect but I have somehow come to being able to see them in passing without weeping because I can't have them :).  A bit of Zen window shopping as it were.

 

Your JS&Co sabre indeed much like mine and you have me counting  grip ridges ;)  One of the auction piccies

 

wolfe17_80.jpg  

 

I don't know why I continue to want the JS&Co to be Salter and not Sayer. My thoughts go back to other examples listed by some as John Salter&Co.  Either way, the swords typically do mimic the wares of Wolfe and Spies.  Let me dig up one batch of files I keep on tap.

 

Cheers

 

GC


Edited by Horseclover, 03 December 2017 - 07:06 AM.


#24 Horseclover

Horseclover
  • Members
    • Member ID: 55,097
  • 347 posts
  • Location:Nipmuc USA

Posted 04 December 2017 - 08:28 AM

Some evidence seems compelling to me that it either is John Salter&Co vs Sayre is a combination of listed dates for J Salter with others and Mowbray's example on page 115 of the bible listing Sayre out of business just before 1812.

 

Add (somewhere in my files) a bright etched JS&Co marked blade.

 

From Old Swords

 

England London Salter, John 1801 1824 35 Strand

England London Salter, John 1825 1829 73 Strand

England London Salter & Co 1830   73 Strand

England London Salter, J., Widdowson & Tate 1831 1833 73 Strand

England London Salter, Widdowson & Tate 1834   73 Strand

England London Widdowson & Veale 1835

 

For your considerations.  Salter is also well mentioned in Mowbray re collaborations and sharing of goods.

 

Cheers

 

GC


Edited by Horseclover, 04 December 2017 - 08:29 AM.


#25 Horseclover

Horseclover
  • Members
    • Member ID: 55,097
  • 347 posts
  • Location:Nipmuc USA

Posted 04 December 2017 - 03:38 PM

So, more in this vein as we have picked the scab ;)

 

I count 21 stars on this one.  A bright white etch.  Considering the bright etched Bolton I posted elsewhere, I suppose we might decide to place these earlier than we might, of figure why we see so many of this type of etch with the cloud of stars.  I know at least a couple of threads wondering when and why.

 

Without further adieu, a few of the images culled from Shiloh Relics in 2011.  A fancy sabre one could certainly place early and to Sayre.....but...........  Was Mowbray simply wrong and someone else right?  I      just       don't        know  :blink:

 

Also in my files a much brighter etched sabre with Spies well placed front and center.  I honestly still have a hunch Salter&Co we exporting and while Sayer may have sold swords, they were not the ones marked JS&Co.  Still jmo but with some due diligence and examination.  I have posted of this at SFI in the past.

 

Piccies from [email protected]  I have the whole set of this one I can send if interested

 

_DSC07317.jpg

_DSC07315.jpg

_DSC07314.jpg

 

 




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


In Memory of Co-Founder GREG MILLS ROBINSON, a.k.a. "Marine-KaBar"
(February 17, 1949 - March 5, 2011)