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The Original 24 Military Aviators - Photographs


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#276 rustywings

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 01:47 PM

1923 dated press-release photo of Frank Lahm.

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#277 rustywings

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 01:49 PM

Back of the 1923 dated photo.

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#278 Paul S

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 01:32 PM

Merry Christmas, Russ. Thanks for posting some fine, new (to me) Frank Lamm pictures. He, with Milling & Fulois appear in a number of c.1953 publicity pictures, some published in Life Magazine during the various celebrations of the 50th Anniversary of powered flight.

#279 rustywings

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 11:43 AM

Merry Christmas, Russ. Thanks for posting some fine, new (to me) Frank Lamm pictures. He, with Milling & Fulois appear in a number of c.1953 publicity pictures, some published in Life Magazine during the various celebrations of the 50th Anniversary of powered flight.



Thank you Paul. And Merry Christmas to you and the rest of our Forum Family.

Russ

#280 T-rat63

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 08:09 PM

I've been satisfying a curiosity by writing a paper about the first 24 Military Aviators--the men who wore the wing that Hap Arnold wore all his life. Getting an image of each of them wearing their wing is likely impossible, but I'm finding that some of those guys are really obscure and difficult to find at all on the net. Of course, a number of them were killed during the early days of flight and didn't live long enough to leave much about themselves behind, much less a nice portrait or candid photo.

Question: do any of you have some pictures of these guys in your files? I can post a list of the names if that would help, and indicate which ones I have had trouble finding. Preference would be for a picture of the man wearing his badge like Hap Arnold below; or just a good quality image of the man; or in a few cases any image at all.

If there is any interest in this thread I can provide more specific information as to needs. Thanks.


Thats a good picture thanks!

#281 manayunkman

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:11 PM

I hope that there might be something in this picture that is useful.

Does anyone know the time frame of when it was taken ?

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#282 manayunkman

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:16 PM

Here is another photo. One of the men in this picture is Ward Rice who was a mechanic and also had some flying time

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#283 CliffP

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:57 PM

Here is another photo. One of the men in this picture is Ward Rice who was a mechanic and also had some flying time


That airplane is Signal Corps #8 built by Curtiss. The picture had to of been taken sometime in early 1913 at the Signal Corps Aviaton School in San Diego because #8 was converted into a seaplane in May, 1913 before being sent to Hawaii.

Cliff

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#284 manayunkman

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:20 AM

Cliff,

When you say that it is S.C. #8 is that the actual number of the plane ? Or is it a Curtis # ?

And if it is the S.C. # how can you tell ?

Here is a photo of Rice and machine.

Could he, as an enlisted man, get some sort of qualification badge for flying ?

Thanks

M

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Edited by manayunkman, 01 March 2012 - 09:25 AM.


#285 CliffP

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 06:47 PM

Cliff,

When you say that it is S.C. #8 is that the actual number of the plane? Or is it a Curtis #?
And if it is the S.C. # how can you tell?

SC #8 means it was the eighth airplane purchased by the Aviation Section of the Signal Corps.

When No. 8 was delivered to the Army by Curtiss on 12 March 1912 it was a two-seater. In mid-November 1912 while still a two-seater it was sent from College Park, Maryland to San Diego where Glenn Curtiss operated a flying school on North Island and had leased part of the facility to the Army for the winter. At some time in the spring of 1913 the airplane was converted to a single-seater and its large radiator was moved from behind the front support brace for the engine bed to the front of the support brace just behind the pilot... and that is how the airplane is configured in the photo you provided. That's how you can tell.

Here is a photo of Rice and machine. Could he, as an enlisted man, get some sort of qualification badge for flying?
Thanks
M

Rice was an Aviation Mechanician at North Island in 1913 who eventually received an enlisted pilot rating. The first insignia for enlisted pilots was not approved until sometime in August of 1917. It was nothing more than a dark blue or black shoulder sleeve patch which had an embroidered white four bladed propeller sitting between two wings sewn to it.

Cliff

#286 manayunkman

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:35 PM

Cliff,

The first time I met the Rice's they told me that their father flew with the Wright brothers. Needless to say I didn't believe it.

It wasn't until years later that they showed me some photos of Ward Rice with the Wright Bros. They also told me that W.R. was a military pilot. I didn't believe that until now.

Thank you for your help.

In the second photo I posted Rice is in a different plane. Is this one from the Wrights or is it also a Curtiss ?

So how close is Rice to the first 24 aviators ?

#287 CliffP

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:40 PM

Cliff,

Thank you so much for the information about Rice. I have a small grouping of his things that came from a family member.

Where does your information about Rice come from ?

That is the only information I was able to find on Rice; however, there is a book available titled THEY ALSO FLEW: The Enlisted Pilot Legacy 1912-1942, written by Lee Arbon, which may have something on him but I don't have a copy in my library.

I would love to know more about him. His grandson swears that there is an "AVIATOR wing pinned to his green uniform". I have his blue uniform and hat and there is nothing on it. I also have 6 real photo post cards 3 of which I have posted here.

It's possible that he may have received a commission during World War 1 and the rating Reserve Military Aviator (RMA) which would account for the AVIATOR wing being on the uniform his grandson has; however, I have a complete list of all Officers who held Military Aviator, Junior Military Aviator and RMA ratings during the war and his name is not in it. With that thought in mind, he may have bought a wing just to wear unofficially while off base as some enlisted pilots were known to do.

What plane is Rice in in the second plane photo. It is different than the Curtis plane.

The airplane in the second photo is S.C. #6 which was also built by Curtiss, and yes it was different in many ways from S.C. #8.

Thank you so much for posting. I can't tell you how thrilled I am to hear that he qualified as a pilot. The family told me he flew But I wasn't too sure. I've heard a lot of stories over the years.

Do you know what year he qualified and was he the first EM to qualify ??

I appreciate any information you can provide. I have searched the web for many years unable to find the info you have told me today.

Thanks again

M

The first enlisted man who received official orders to train as a pilot was Sgt. Vernon L. Burge who held F.A.I. Certificate No. 154, issued on 14 August 1912.

I haven't a clue as to what year Rice became a pilot. What most people may not be aware of is that there were a number of enlisted men who flew before 1920 that never received official recognition for being pilots — so their status has always remained vague.

One attempt to clarify the situation was made on 22 January 1919 when the commanding officer of the Air Mechanics School at Kelly Field asking the Office of Military Aeronautics (OMA) for a definition of “enlisted aviator” so that he would be able to know exactly which of his men were entitled to wear the enlisted aviator insignia on the upper shoulder of their tunics. The OMA sent a reply back on 31 January 1919 advising the CO that although uniform regulations and specifications provide for an insignia to be worn by enlisted aviators, the grade itself had never been officially created :huh: meaning there was no one in the Army officially entitled to wear the insignia provided for the grade :wacko:. In other words, in official terms all enlisted aviators, who had served before and during World War 1 as instructors, ferry pilots, test pilots, and mechanical flight-check pilots, did not exist—at least not up to that point!

Cliff

#288 manayunkman

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 08:56 PM

Cliff,

I want to bore into your brain and claim your knowledge as my own.

Where did you find the information you have on Rice ??

Where did the information come from that you can identify the Curtiss planes by number ?

I am simply amazed at the information you've shared.

Many thanks and if you are willing to share the sources or sources of your illuminations you have a disciple in me.

M

PS. The photo with the seven planes on the flight line the, very first one ( on the left of the picture ) seems to have a flatter top wing than the others. Is it also a Curtiss ??

Edited by manayunkman, 02 March 2012 - 09:00 PM.


#289 CliffP

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 01:04 AM

(1) Where did you find the information you have on Rice ??

(2) Where did the information come from that you can identify the Curtiss planes by number ?

(3) The photo with the seven planes on the flight line the, very first one ( on the left of the picture ) seems to have a flatter top wing than the others. Is it also a Curtiss ??

(1) The United States Army Air Arm April 1861 to April 1917; by Juliette A. Hennessy, Office of Air Force History - Washington, DC.

(2) U. S. Military Aircraft 1908 to April 6, 1917, Vol. 2, Curtiss D, E, F, G, and Armored Tractor; by Robert B. Casari.

(3) Wish I could help you identify it but due to the poor quality of the photo these old eyes can't make it out. Most probably S.C. #2 built by Curtiss.

PS: The photo in post #284 of Rice seen sitting in S.C. #6 was taken in August, GA sometime in 1912.

#290 Paul S

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 03:51 PM

Here is another group picture showing 6 of the early planes at North Island about August 1913. SC 2 & SC 6 are marked.

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#291 rathbonemuseum.com

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 02:05 PM

Hi. I would like to help. What is missing? I don't want to duplicate. I have gone through all the threads and it seems there is still about half of the men to go. Do you want histories or just pics?

Cheers,

Tod

#292 Bluehawk

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 02:57 PM

Hi. I would like to help. What is missing? I don't want to duplicate. I have gone through all the threads and it seems there is still about half of the men to go. Do you want histories or just pics?

Cheers,

Tod

BOTH!

This is one of the best USMF threads ever.

#293 rathbonemuseum.com

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 09:05 PM

The military aviator badge held at the National Museum of the US Air Force attributed to 1Lt. Hollis LeRoy Muller.

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#294 swag

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 07:05 PM

A young Hap Arnold (thanks to cobrahistorian and locobuster for ID'ing him). I found this picture in the archives.

Army_Aviator___Original_copy.jpg

#295 swag

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 07:06 PM

Close up of the wings.

Army_Aviator___Original_1_copy.jpg

#296 cthomas

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:54 PM

That is the only information I was able to find on Rice; however, there is a book available titled THEY ALSO FLEW: The Enlisted Pilot Legacy 1912-1942, written by Lee Arbon, which may have something on him but I don't have a copy in my library.


Cliff,
I have a copy of this book and Rice is not in it.
-Chuck

#297 Flightpath

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:45 AM

Maj General Herbert A. Dargue
Born in Brooklyn, NY 17 November 1886
KIA near Bishop, CA 12 December 1941


General Dargue was killed in an aircraft accident.....

General Dargue was to lead the investigation as to why the United States had been unprepared for the attack on Pearl Harbour, However, while flying to Hawaii to take his new post, Dargue's aircraft crashed in the mountains outside Bishop, California, and he was killed. Dargue was the first Army General to die on duty during WWII.

cheers,

-John (just keeping the records straight) :)

Edited by Flightpath, 20 December 2012 - 11:48 AM.


#298 CliffP

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 04:31 AM

Wonderful photo of 1/Lt Joseph Dodge Park who earned his Military Aviator (MA) rating on May 7, 1913.  Picture taken at the Signal Corps Aviation School at North Island, San Diego, CA.  He was killed in an air accident two days later on May 9, 1913.  Park Field, Millington, Tennessee, was named in his memory.

 

Cliff

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#299 carjon

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:30 PM

Avaition15_sm.jpg

 

Here is one of Frank Lahm on the podium at Kelly Field....



#300 Bluehawk

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 07:19 AM

attachicon.gifAvaition15_sm.jpg

 

Here is one of Frank Lahm on the podium at Kelly Field....

Wow...   very very nice picture!




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