Identification US Navy wartime white undress uniform

[Sorcerer1]

I'm preparing to make a new diorama in my collection but the chosen topic is undiscovered country for me.

The intention is to have 2 uniform set ups, 1 army and 1 navy as on 7th december 1941 at Pearl Harbor. I was fortunate to visit Pearl Harbor in december 2011.

Wartime US navy uniforms as used on D-Day by beach battalions can be easily identified by formation that is found on the internet and certain books.

However I intend to embark on the uniforms as used on ships, more precisely undress whites.

 

So, I'm wondering if these garments come with period labels, stencilled or other markings as being pre 1945.

I know some of the garments I already have use a code system.

They are not that common on this side of the ocean, as usually the dress blues are to be found.

 

W've seen loads of collector books being published on army, airborne and USMC uniforms and equipement, but not that much on Navy uniforms, helas.

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Guy

[Jumpin Jack]

Usually, the undress uniform will have a tag under the flap, but is not dated. Unless there is some rating on the sleeve, it would be difficult to determine date. Jack

[29navy]

The only tag the undress whites had was when they were first issued. A small tag at the bottom hem of the jumper and at the waist of the trousers. It was just a size tag and on the reverse was a contract number. There were taken off right away because they were on the outside and were only paper. The whites were made of cotton. The jumper had one external patch pocket on the left breast. In 1941 there was also a loop at the bottom of the V-neck and one under the collar flap in the rear. This was to hold the neckerchief. The rating (or rank) that you intend to show would be indicated by sleeve patches if a petty officer, or with the shoulder stripe, blue on the right sleeve for seaman branch (as shown) or red on the left sleeve for engineers. Wouldn't be wearing a neckerchief on board unless on duty (quarterdeck watch) or ready to go on liberty.

[29navy]

For the trousers, button fly, belt loops, (with a white belt) no rear pockets, two small front pockets. In 1941, there would still be some of the pre-war trousers, same style except no belt loops and a tie up gusset in the rear (like the dress blue trousers). This is a close up of the front pockets

[29navy]

This is what the tag on the trousers look like. Similar tag on the jumper. That's why they were taken off.

[Sorcerer1]

Excellent info 29navy, thanks for submitting the info on the labels.

Would these be placed at the same location or just randomly, sometimes front and then back?

 

Would post 1945 be the same in cut and style, so difference between pre or post war, without tag, is difficult to determine?

 

thanks ,

 

Guy

[RustyCanteen]

I agree with the information 29navy posted. As to how to make sure you get an appropriate jumper for 1941, look for one with the flat cloth loop sewn just below the 'v' at the bottom of the collar. The only way a jumper would lack that loop in 1941 is if it had been removed, or was a custom tailored uniform. Later wartime and postwar manufacture did not have the loop.

 

Another thing to consider is that the Navy used up uniforms for decades, and sometimes the early uniforms remained in use into the Vietnam war. So even if it has the loop on it indicating it was made in the early 1940s, it would be a good idea to look at any rate/rank patches on it to make sure they are from the 1940s and not the 1950s or 1960s.

[29navy]

Style was the same post-WWII, minus the neckerchief loops. Forgot to mention, in 1944, the jumpers were shortened 4 inches to save on fabric, which is about the same time they eliminated the loops.

 

So in 1941, the jumpers would have been longer. According to the 1941 Regs, the jumper was to extend 2-3 inches below the hip.

 

Concur with Rustycanteen about the usage. The old ones were in stock til they ran out.

 

I think the trouser tags were on the front. I believe the jumper tags were on the back hem, so that if you had a problem taking the tag off, it wouldn't mess up the front.

 

In the early 1950's the style changed to two slit pockets on the breasts but it took about years to use up the stock they had of the old style.

[Sorcerer1]

Many, many thanks for the replies everyone.

The search begins.

 

Guy