Frogskin7 Posted November 20, 2017 Share #1 Posted November 20, 2017 I bought this Helmet cover a month ago thinking that it was a 1st Marine Division Helmet Cover because of the Graffiti (I was skeptic because it said Americal, which was weird), well it's completely different. About 15 minutes ago I was watching a documentary on the My Lai Massacre of 1968 so I felt interested in the Massace and Googled it. What came up was the Division. 23rd Infantry Division, Americal. At that moment I realized what I could possibly have in my collection is related to one of the worst Massacres during the Vietnam war. Sadly this cover cant talk about where it's been but the history behind it it's extremely interesting. Could it have been there? Sadly we will never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogskin7 Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share #2 Posted November 20, 2017 Another Side of the cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogskin7 Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share #3 Posted November 20, 2017 Full helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchfoot Posted November 20, 2017 Share #4 Posted November 20, 2017 Pretty neat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogskin7 Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share #5 Posted November 20, 2017 Pretty neat! You should have seen my reaction. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted November 20, 2017 Share #6 Posted November 20, 2017 That's exactly the patina and age you want to see in a vintage graffiti example from this period. Errrrr, not really. But cool cover! Wonder when it was draw on there. What's the date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogskin7 Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share #7 Posted November 20, 2017 That's exactly the patina and age you want to see in a vintage graffiti example from this period. Errrrr, not really. But cool cover! Wonder when it was draw on there. What's the date? Its dated 1965. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted November 20, 2017 Share #8 Posted November 20, 2017 I agree , it hasn't seen the heavy use and weathering that grunt's helmets endured in Vietnam, but it still could've been in Vietnam with someone who's job wasn't beating the bush, which were the majority of troops in Vietnam. Off the top of my head it was something like 10 support personal for every 1 in combat. I do like that it was done in ball point pen instead of sharpie, and Unit markings on the side of helmets were common in Vietnam, although I haven't seen 23rd ID ones before, but then again, i haven't been looking. As for the change that it was at My Lai, very unlikely, the massacre was carried out by 1 company in the whole division, which is about 1% of the unit. If it was cheap I personally would've picked it up on the chance that it was real, but it's not a one looker for me. But again, that's just my opinion and if you like it than that's all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellasilva Posted November 20, 2017 Share #9 Posted November 20, 2017 Yeah, very very fresh looking. The killings were committed by a very specific unit so it wasn't Division-wide. I actually own a dog tag to a Rifleman who served with the Company (C Company, 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry, 11th LIB, 23rd ID). He joined the unit almost a year after it happened and served with two men who participated that day before they rotated home. Chilling stuff. Couldn't imagine the unspoken knowledge in that unit, especially considering it didn't hit the US press until well after the incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted May 30, 2018 Share #10 Posted May 30, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
644td Posted May 31, 2018 Share #11 Posted May 31, 2018 Nice find and to remember the helmet after 7 months, great job. Marty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogskin7 Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share #12 Posted May 31, 2018 cw_scan013-XL.jpg Tried searching for a photo for a while. Couldn't find one. Thank you for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted May 31, 2018 Share #13 Posted May 31, 2018 No problem, for what it's worth he is a member of A Co 1st Bn, 6th IR, 198th BDE. He is the only case I've seen of this being done, but others in that unit marked their helmets with the ace of spades, which was their company symbol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogskin7 Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share #14 Posted May 31, 2018 No problem, for what it's worth he is a member of A Co 1st Bn, 6th IR, 198th BDE. He is the only case I've seen of this being done, but others in that unit marked their helmets with the ace of spades, which was their company symbol. So it could possibly be authentic? I'd expect if someone wanted to graffiti the cover for the 23rd it would likely be the Ace of Spades instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted May 31, 2018 Share #15 Posted May 31, 2018 So it could possibly be authentic? I'd expect if someone wanted to graffiti the cover for the 23rd it would likely be the Ace of Spades instead. I think most people wouldn't don't know about A/1/6/198/23, and would be much more likely to know about the 23rd Infantry Division., as it is 10,000% larger than just A Company. An elaborate faker could do research and find out about Alpha's Spade, but I would also expect them to make a complete helmet, weather it, and advertise it as such. But someone casually interested in the Vietnam war, or a historical airsofter, or reenactor may have drawn the insignia of a unit they are familiar with. Unless you can find out who "Stoney" is, it'll stay a maybe in my opinion. Interestingly it looks like the man in the photo has something written above the insignia too. I know how you feel, I have a AAA-O marked helmet cover, that I bought because I would rather be $20 in the hole than miss out on it if it turned out to be good. I haven't be able to find a single photo of it being done, and even asked a vet on this forum who was with 2/39 in Vietnam if he saw it, and he said no and that is was unlikely. The only thing I've seen like it is another cover on this forum marked the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogskin7 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share #16 Posted June 1, 2018 I typed on Google "Americal Division #1 Stoney" and this is what came up in my searching from the http://www.196th.org/index.htm It mentions a Stoney from I believe 2/1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogskin7 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share #17 Posted June 1, 2018 Last time these were written was in '07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogskin7 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share #18 Posted June 1, 2018 Here is a man replying to him using the the nickname "Stoney" which is on the cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogskin7 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share #19 Posted June 1, 2018 Here is the man SSGT Stone referring to himself as Stoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted June 1, 2018 Share #20 Posted June 1, 2018 Sounds like a good lead, maybe consider sending him an email if that account is still active. I think the "Americal Division #1" refers to the pigeon language spoken by Vietnamese people, where #1 is good and #10 is very bad. Seems he isn't the only Stoney who was with the 23rd: https://army.togetherweserved.com/army/servlet/tws.webapp.WebApp?cmd=ShadowBoxProfile&type=Person&ID=46008 although this one seems unlikely because he was KIA and I doubt his helmet cover would be sent back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now