Syphers47 Posted October 31, 2017 Share #1 Posted October 31, 2017 I found this Canco .30 Cal M1 can at a flea market a couple of weeks ago. It was covered in faded red paint. I started stripping it and discovered these markings underneath. Does anyone know more about them. I haven't seen this style before. Which decade would these have been painted? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taber10 Posted October 31, 2017 Share #2 Posted October 31, 2017 I'll take a guess: This can was produced in early WWII and sometime after the war was used to "repack" a functional lot of linked .30 Cal M1. The functional lot included Ball (BL) from Lake City (LC) Lot 13077-C and Tracer (TR) from Lake City lot 12254. Although nothing in the markings would indicate, the functional lot was most likely four ball rounds and one tracer round repeated for approximately 250 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USARV72 Posted October 31, 2017 Share #3 Posted October 31, 2017 Question came up last weekend when a few of us got together, some boxes have M 1 stamped, other have M 2. M 1 ball production ended in 40????? when M2 with flat base projectile was produced. One thought the M1 referred to the rifle. None of us have researched difference. What's the correct info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Flick Posted October 31, 2017 Share #4 Posted October 31, 2017 USARV72: The embossed information on the box, "CAL. .30 M1 AMMUNITION BOX", is the nomenclature for the box and not for the ammunition contained within or the M1 rifle. The M1 Box was originally designed for use with the M1917A1 and M1919A1 belt-fed machine guns. Regards, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taber10 Posted October 31, 2017 Share #5 Posted October 31, 2017 I'm not sure I'm correctly interpreting USARV72's queston, but here goes anyway: The Cal .30 Ball M2 was first produced--or at least accepted--in Dec of 1938. "On January 12, 1940 the Ball M2 replaced the Ball M1 as standard for all Cal.30 weapons except aircraft machineguns and Navy use." That is quoted from History of Modern US Military Small Arms Ammunition Vol 1, by Hackley, Woodin and Scranton, the "bible" for military small arms ammunition. It seems that "one of the last lots of Ball M1 cartridges manufactured at Frankford Arsenal..... was accepted September 3, 1941, for Navy use." Same reference as above, but Vol II. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphers47 Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share #6 Posted October 31, 2017 Thanks for the the reply Taber10. I'm not very knowledgeable on markings and lot numbers. Do you have an idea of when this number system would have started use? I wondering if this is good for a WWII display. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USARV72 Posted October 31, 2017 Share #7 Posted October 31, 2017 Thanks, Charlie and Taber. Two part question. Have to check my cans. IIRC have several boxes of M1 ball dated 1940? Remember reading where the AN MG 42 used M 1 ball.Marines took AN MG 42 s from downed Dauntless's on the Canal and used them as ground guns. Wonder how using M2 in them changed the rate of fire? or did they have supplies of M1? Anyone know the details? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taber10 Posted November 1, 2017 Share #8 Posted November 1, 2017 Hmm, while I am an "ammo guy" and not really a "gun guy" I am totally unfamiliar with "AN MG 42s" on Dauntless--or any other US aircraft. In a combat situation where you are looking to scrounge weaponry off of downed aircraft, I'd guess that changes in rate of fire would not be a major consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverplate Posted November 1, 2017 Share #9 Posted November 1, 2017 The "LC TR 12254" is a lot number from 1944 for .30 cal. M1 tracer made at Lake City Ordnance Plant, the "BL 13077-C" is the lot number for .30 cal. M2 ball made at Lake City in 1943. The wide variance in manufacturing dates would suggest a repacked lot of belted or linked rounds sometime after the date of the 1944 lot number. It's a nice example of a wartime used M1 box. Try cleaning off the opposite side as markings were usually stenciled on the flat panel that didn't have the stamped nomenclature or wire handle. It may contain additional information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USARV72 Posted November 1, 2017 Share #10 Posted November 1, 2017 Taber, rear gun on SBD was a US AN MG 42, .30 Cal.aircraft version for Navy A/C. Good books on Marines on the Canal will mention them scrounging them to use as ground guns. Rate of fire was higher than 1917's and 1919's. IIRC the Raiders had them. Books are boxed up but I' ll try to locate the book( s). Most of us hardly ever look at ammo cans, never really thought about them. Saw a post a while back regarding them but didn't look at it. Now going to have to dig out cans and call buddy that was talking about them. He was going to load one side of the mine racks of his half track with cans, the other with mines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Flick Posted November 1, 2017 Share #11 Posted November 1, 2017 I think the weapon that USARV72 is referring to is the AN M2 .30 flexible mount machine gun, not "AN MG42". It was a lightened version of the M1919 Browning and had very high rate of fire at 1350 rounds per minute. They were used on a variety of Navy and Marine aircraft in WW2. The image below was taken at Corpus Christi NAS in August, 1942 and shows an AN M2 mounted in a Navy PBY Catalina. There were indeed recorded instances where Marines salvaged these guns and put them to good use as ground weapons. The name adopted for these modified guns was the "Stinger". Period pics of one of these Stingers is seen below. (Photo credit to Guns.com) With that high rate of fire I would think that running out of ammo would be a concern. Regards, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphers47 Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share #12 Posted November 1, 2017 Silverplate: Awesome. Just the info I was looking for. Thank-you. I was able to strip the whole can. I think it can out pretty good. I like the traces of old paint. It'll never be perfect but it's unique. Unfortunately there isn't much more information on the other side of the can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphers47 Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share #13 Posted November 1, 2017 The other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USARV72 Posted November 2, 2017 Share #14 Posted November 2, 2017 OK Charlie, that must be the gun, I'll check some publications. Now, buddy in N.C. called about ammo cans and I looked at some of mine. Some are marked M 1, some M 2, no material differences in construction of cans so what's the deal? Have a few with different shaped bodies and lids with other latches. Any reference books on ammo cans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverplate Posted November 5, 2017 Share #15 Posted November 5, 2017 Syphers47, great job on cleaning up your box. Markings on both sides is uncommon, and the fact that they match, and date the can to the mid-war time period, make for a nice addition to your collection. Sometimes when you remove paint, you find stuff you don't expect. I had a .50 cal. M2 box my son gave me, that he had gotten as part of a video game introduction. I knew it was a WWII-era box, so I decided to strip off the video game label that had been painted on the side. Boy was I surprised to find the markings you see here in this photo. I also noticed smaller stencils under the ones you see, but I didn't want to ruin what I had already found by accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphers47 Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share #16 Posted November 18, 2017 Hey Silverplate that's awesome. Great job finding those markings as well. I recently found these markings under some paint on an M1. Pretty sure they are Corporal markings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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