Timberwolf Posted October 22, 2017 Share #1 Posted October 22, 2017 Hey all! Just purchased this grouping to a pair of brothers. Edward served in "A" Company 504th PIR which earned the PUC on April 6th, 1945 crossing the Rhine River, he was wounded the day after on the 7th. This jacket has a killer set of jump wings, been after an ike with a star on the oval for a while. He was a post Market Garden replacement having earned his wings on October 28th of '44. His brother Charles Jr. served in a unknown capacity in the 243rd FAB which was unique as it was one of 8 battalions equipped with 8" M1 guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timberwolf Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share #2 Posted October 22, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timberwolf Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share #3 Posted October 22, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmar836 Posted October 22, 2017 Share #4 Posted October 22, 2017 Sweet set. The 504 Iike has a great patina. What's with the paracord shoelace tag? Is that a common term for something, was it ever really done, or was the family mistaken about paracord vs shoe laces? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Jack Posted October 22, 2017 Share #5 Posted October 22, 2017 Use of white suspension lines by MP's and Honor Guards of the Airborne was very common. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patchtrader864 Posted October 22, 2017 Share #6 Posted October 22, 2017 What's with the red rope . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIKyle Posted October 22, 2017 Share #7 Posted October 22, 2017 Neat group- the only part I don't follow is why there is a star on his wings if he was a post- MG replacement; did he jump in Varsity? Kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timberwolf Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share #8 Posted October 22, 2017 Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timberwolf Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share #9 Posted October 22, 2017 Neat group- the only part I don't follow is why there is a star on his wings if he was a post- MG replacement; did he jump in Varsity? Kyle That's my thought as well. His discharge docs don't list any invasion credit, my guess was to make his wing stand out more? This did come direct from the family this past month (purchased it from my collecting mentor who does buying shows). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1944 Posted October 22, 2017 Share #10 Posted October 22, 2017 That's a great 504th PIR Ike Jacket you have got there I like it.. thanks for sharing I would say he added those wings to his Ike prior to coming home just my opinion going by his records he wasn't entitled to wear the star on those wings as no invasion listed on the documents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted October 22, 2017 Share #11 Posted October 22, 2017 That is a very nice group, and it would be interesting to see his records and discharge document. That jump document is one of the best parts. This was the type given to men who were awarded their wings in England, and is rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timberwolf Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share #12 Posted October 23, 2017 That is a very nice group, and it would be interesting to see his records and discharge document. That jump document is one of the best parts. This was the type given to men who were awarded their wings in England, and is rare. Thanks Andy! I'm glad you picked up on the significance of the jump certificate. As requested here is a pic of the discharge papers, along with a closeup of the Gavin signed jump doc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USdog Posted October 23, 2017 Share #13 Posted October 23, 2017 Nice group! I have the dog tag of your 504th guys CO. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timberwolf Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share #14 Posted October 23, 2017 Nice group! I have the dog tag of your 504th guys CO. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Thanks! Now that's too cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted October 23, 2017 Share #15 Posted October 23, 2017 What's with the red rope . That is the fourragere to the Belgian Croix de Guerre, but the finial has been removed. While these fourrageres looked like a million bucks on the uniform, they were unpopular with the guys who had to wear them. I have had several WWII veterans tell me that they constantly got snagged on things and when a soldier turned around too fast, the tips of the fourrageres would whip around and sometimes hit the soldier in the face! It is not that uncommon to find these cords with the metal tips removed. Timberwolf- it is interesting that the lapels have been pierced with clutch back collar brass. This is sometimes seen worn on occupation era uniforms, but is usually a bit later that you see them doubled up like that. They look like the second set was recently removed. Was there extra insignia that came with the group? What do you think? Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timberwolf Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share #16 Posted October 23, 2017 That is the fourragere to the Belgian Croix de Guerre, but the finial has been removed. While these fourrageres looked like a million bucks on the uniform, they were unpopular with the guys who had to wear them. I have had several WWII veterans tell me that they constantly got snagged on things and when a soldier turned around too fast, the tips of the fourrageres would whip around and sometimes hit the soldier in the face! It is not that uncommon to find these cords with the metal tips removed. Timberwolf- it is interesting that the lapels have been pierced with clutch back collar brass. This is sometimes seen worn on occupation era uniforms, but is usually a bit later that you see them doubled up like that. They look like the second set was recently removed. Was there extra insignia that came with the group? What do you think? Allan Allan, The set that is on the upper lapels were on the bottom, I made that change. Oddly enough the upper lapels were pierced for screwback brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted October 23, 2017 Share #17 Posted October 23, 2017 It would be interesting to request his record to see if more info is available. I'm curious what unit he was in prior to the 82nd. He arrived in the ETO early enough to have made the Holland jump, despite the date on the jump document. Rhineland was also the campaign credit given for Market-Garden. Arrowheads for invasion credit are sometimes not included on discharge documents for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katieony Posted October 23, 2017 Share #18 Posted October 23, 2017 A very impressive group...congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted October 23, 2017 Share #19 Posted October 23, 2017 To add a bit more context; as a later replacement, he was retained in the 504th for occupation duty postwar, hence the white laces. A white scarf and gloves would have completed the outfit. He returned home with the 82nd in early 1946 and probably marched in the famous NYC victory parade wearing this uniform. The men who left the Army from separation centers had their documents typed by admin clerks that were literally processing thousands of people. Mistakes and omissions are common on these documents. Different centers also had different SOPs. Note also that his jump wings and CIB are not listed. If his record still exists, it will have a lot more detail. Great group! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timberwolf Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share #20 Posted October 23, 2017 Andy thanks for the context on that! I figured that was the case, I know I've seen other d/c papers that lacked certain qualifications like jump wings to fully ID'ed AB vets. I'm definitely going to get this guy's file along with his brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted October 23, 2017 Share #21 Posted October 23, 2017 Appears his wing and CUB were listed in the Remarks section under his BAR and Carbine qualifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted October 23, 2017 Share #22 Posted October 23, 2017 In a roundabout way I suppose. Sometimes you see jump school listed under service schools along with the date and number of weeks. Also, sometimes the wings and CIB are listed by the complete name of the award Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIKyle Posted October 23, 2017 Share #23 Posted October 23, 2017 It seems this clerk was quite thorough, at least with respect to qualifications, as he filled up the single line in part 31, and used the * to continue it in the remarks column. Personally, I would be surprised if this soldier received invasion credit because by 1946, the arrowhead as a ribbon device had been out awhile, and appropriate campaigns give invasion credit. Stranger things have occurred, of course. Kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted October 23, 2017 Share #24 Posted October 23, 2017 Very true. Hopefully his record is intact enough to confirm or deny the wings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timberwolf Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share #25 Posted October 24, 2017 Yes, I'll definitely see if he was awarded any invasion credits. I feel this was done on occupation to spruce up the wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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