VN era Army uniform with odd ribbons

[bheskett]

I am trying to sort this out opinions please.

 

I picked this up from a fellow forum member a month or so ago and can't find the original post. The ribbons just looked a bit odd. Well I got his FOIA file and the Navy GC ribbon looks to be OK. He was prior Navy. His file indicates he rates the VN service medal, Campaign medal, National Defense, Air crewman badge, CIB (2nd award), ARCOM, Air medal w/5 Oak Leaf clusters, and the Republic of VN Gallantry Cross w/ unit palm citation. No mention of the Silver Star or the 2 purple hearts.

 

I could see someone not putting the campaign or foreign ribbons on for whatever reason but the Silver Star and Purple Hearts don't show in his file. Also the 2nd CIB. Not sure what is up with that. I find evidence of the crewman's badge and the ribbon bar pin back indetations look to have been there for a long time.

 

His file indicates he was a gunner with Co.A 25th Avn BN, and later with Hq Co. II FForce V USARPAC.

 

Every other overseas assignment has VN or Vietnam after the unit except the last one.

 

Can anyone fill me in on what II FForce V was.

 

So the real question is could this ribbon rack be his original set? Everything else on the uniform matches up but the COB and I have no clue how he could have earned a second award. His Navy enlistment began in 1957. I guess it possible he was in during the Korean War and his filed were burned up and they were not in the files the archives folks looked at.

 

 

 

Thanks

Bob

[MasonK]

Just an observation, but that looks like a DFC ribbon, not a Silver Star ribbon. Doesn't help solve the mystery, unfortunately.

[bheskett]

Eric

 

Thanks very much. As you can tell I am not a medal guy. But you are right no closer.

[CNY Militaria]

That is indeed a DFC ribbon and several Air medals. Odd considering it's an infantry uniform rather than Aircrew.

 

A lot of collectors putting ribbons together forget the order of precedence of the Purple Heart changed in 1985. Prior to that date, the ARCOM rated higher than the PH.

 

My vote would be that the ribbons were added by someone other than the vet.

[bheskett]

His record indicates he was a gunner in and Aviation unit and did rate the Air Medal w/5 clusters and there are holes that look to match up with a set of crewman's wings. Thanks very much. If the ribbons are a later ad on I have the records to put the correct ones on. The 2nd award of the CIB is a puzzlement as well.

[MasonK]

Food for thought, since everything else jives up as far as awards and service. I'm sure everyone can attest to these two things:

 

-Records at the Archives with respect to awards, don't always jive up with what was actually awarded. I have a VN KIA grouping that consists a Gov't engraved Purple Heart and Bronze Star. These two medals aren't listed on the composite file provided by the Archives.

 

-Vet's didn't always follow regs as it relates to medal placement. Additionally, he could have had the uniform cleaned post-service, and put the ribbons on in the wrong order. That, or a family member did so after the vet passed.

 

I see what appears to be pin holes for a third row of ribbons, unless my eyes are deceiving me? Can you confirm?

 

I assume you requested his record direct from the Archives, and not through a private researcher? May be worthwhile to have Golden Arrow or Red Bird dig a little deeper.

 

Also, would it be possible to see what documentation was provided to you?

 

Sorry for the all the questions. It's an interesting uniform, to a fella who had an interesting military career.

[bheskett]

The holes above the ribbons are either for his crewman's wings or a 2 piece ribbon bar. I did use Lori at Redbird and asked her to dig for his Navy file. PM me your E-mail and I will scan what I got and send them to you. I too think its pretty cool. I am happy to have it in my collection. The FOIA file had his picture too so that's a plus.

 

Bob

[Martinjmpr]

"Field Force" was an echelon of command above Division but below US Army Vietnam (USARV.)

 

Under normal Army doctrine that level of command would be called "corps" level (for example, I was in VII Corps when I was in Germany and when I was at Fort Lewis I was at I Corps. Fort Bragg is the headquarters of XVIII Airborne Corps.) A Corps is commanded by a LTG (3 stars.)

 

However, in Vietnam, "Corps" had a different meaning. In Vietnam "Corps" was used to designated fixed tactical zones for the war, so you might here that someone operated in the III Corps area or the V corps area.

 

Since the term "corps" was used to designate a geographical area instead of an echelon of command (as it normally would have been) they had to call the intermediate level of command above division something else, so they called it Field Force. The V stands for Vietnam, so II FFV means "Second Field Force Vietnam."

[Martinjmpr]

As for the 2nd CIB unless you can find some evidence that the soldier served as a combat infantryman in either WWII or Korea, it's not legit.

[MattS]

My 2 cents (being Army Aviation), he may have been in an action where he was awarded a DFC when he was close to getting out and it didn't make it into his file. If a third row of ribbons is missing, I'd assume it would contain the National Defense Service Medal, Vietnam Service Medal, and RVN Campaign Medal. I'd say somebody messed up typing his records by putting the '2nd Award' after the CIB. This was wartime, records clerks were busy and made mistakes. Even though I got out in peacetime, my DD-214 isn't right.

 

Also, II FForce V was indeed 2nd Field Force, Vietnam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/II_Field_Force,_Vietnam

[bheskett]

Thanks very much for the feedback.

Bob