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80 unauthorized 7th Cavalry patches, Desert Shield / Storm


P-59A
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I think I posted the same pic twice. Any way a guy contacted me on these. He says he has 20 in his collection and wants to know if I will sell. I would like to know about them before I decide.

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From what I recall, these are commercially produced souvenir patches that were made in the USA well after Desert Storm. I am quite sure they were never worn on a uniform.

 

To be blunt, I think it was a patch maker's attempt to cash in on the war after it had been declared a victory. They also could have been sponsored by one of the off post military surplus shops down in Killeen after the troops came home.

 

I don't think there is a lot of value to them, especially compared to patches made in theater. Looking at completed listings on eBay, they seem to be running for between $4 and $7 with very few actually having been sold. I used the search term "1st Cavalry Desert Storm Patch" and then "1st CAV Desert Storm Patch".

 

If these were mine, and I had an interested party, I'd offer to sell the lot for $5 each and be done with them. Or give him his pick at $7 or $8 each.

 

But, let's see if anyone else has another comment.

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From what I recall, these are commercially produced souvenir patches that were made in the USA well after Desert Storm. I am quite sure they were never worn on a uniform.

 

To be blunt, I think it was a patch maker's attempt to cash in on the war after it had been declared a victory. They also could have been sponsored by one of the off post military surplus shops down in Killeen after the troops came home.

 

I don't think there is a lot of value to them, especially compared to patches made in theater. Looking at completed listings on eBay, they seem to be running for between $4 and $7 with very few actually having been sold. I used the search term "1st Cavalry Desert Storm Patch" and then "1st CAV Desert Storm Patch".

 

If these were mine, and I had an interested party, I'd offer to sell the lot for $5 each and be done with them. Or give him his pick at $7 or $8 each.

 

But, let's see if anyone else has another comment.

Hmmm, Are you the guy who is interested in them? (Joking) That is exactly what the offer was. I did the e-pray search and found the price on these for a single ranged between 6-16 per patch.

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I agree with gwb123.

 

I'd go farther and say these are fantasy "souvenir" patches. Made only for the fantasy market, never made for wear, made well after the bullets stopped flying.

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Patchcollector

That's a neat assortment you have there,thanks for sharing them.Souvenir,or novelty patches have been made and sometimes worn at least since the Korean "police action".They may have been made earlier,but I'm not aware of that.A few found their way onto uniforms,but most were worn on off duty clothing,such as;party suits,jackets hats,etc..,and are also sometimes found on gear like helmet bags.

 

The most desirable ones are the theatre made pieces,usually made during the conflict in or near the combat zone by the locals.

 

There were/are others made outside of the AO,such as the US and many places in Asia.Some were/are made during the conflict,some after.I've seen them offered in various places,including some Surplus shops.

 

From the photos you posted that is what you appear to have.While these have less monetary value to collectors than the theatre made ones,they are not worthless,and a few collectors like me enjoy seeing and collecting them.Lately I've been picking up some Desert Storm Novelty patches because I find them interesting and they are undervalued IMO.

 

Here is a link to a thread I started showing my small collection of Desert Shield/Storm patches:

 

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/245863-desert-storm-related-patches/?hl=%2Bdesert+%2Bstorm+%2Bpatches

 

 

Yours appear to be based on real places and units that were involved in the Desert Storm OP,so I wouldn't call them "fantasy" pieces.

 

IMO the ones posted here could have been worn on clothing and gear by Vets just as easily as those made in prior conflicts.Some also find their way into shadowboxes and other displays.

 

 

Just wanted to add;some of your patches appear to be made a bit differently than the others;are there any theatre made pieces in your assortment?

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vintageproductions

I agree with gwb123.

 

I'd go farther and say these are fantasy "souvenir" patches. Made only for the fantasy market, never made for wear, made well after the bullets stopped flying.

 

Aren't these the ones Dennis Streng made?

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That's a neat assortment you have there,thanks for sharing them.Souvenir,or novelty patches have been made and sometimes worn at least since the Korean "police action".They may have been made earlier,but I'm not aware of that.A few found their way onto uniforms,but most were worn on off duty clothing,such as;party suits,jackets hats,etc..,and are also sometimes found on gear like helmet bags.

 

The most desirable ones are the theatre made pieces,usually made during the conflict in or near the combat zone by the locals.

 

There were/are others made outside of the AO,such as the US and many places in Asia.Some were/are made during the conflict,some after.I've seen them offered in various places,including some Surplus shops.

 

From the photos you posted that is what you appear to have.While these have less monetary value to collectors than the theatre made ones,they are not worthless,and a few collectors like me enjoy seeing and collecting them.Lately I've been picking up some Desert Storm Novelty patches because I find them interesting and they are undervalued IMO.

 

Here is a link to a thread I started showing my small collection of Desert Shield/Storm patches:

 

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/245863-desert-storm-related-patches/?hl=%2Bdesert+%2Bstorm+%2Bpatches

 

 

Yours appear to be based on real places and units that were involved in the Desert Storm OP,so I wouldn't call them "fantasy" pieces.

 

IMO the ones posted here could have been worn on clothing and gear by Vets just as easily as those made in prior conflicts.Some also find their way into shadowboxes and other displays.

 

 

Just wanted to add;some of your patches appear to be made a bit differently than the others;are there any theatre made pieces in your assortment?

The construction on the majority have a cheese cloth backing. a few of the ones with heavy stitching have a white plastic film sewn to the back and these are sewn around the border and the other patch's with allot of stitching have a melted plastic backing. As to any of these being theater made, I have no idea. These are not in my wheel house of knowledge and out side of my collecting area. I bought them because they look cool and there were so many of them.

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Aren't these the ones Dennis Streng made?

I had posted these on W-A a few years ago and that name came up as a possible origin, but nothing solid came of it. I know a few of these made it into a book on unauthorized desert shield / storm patch's, but I do not own that book and have no idea what information was given.

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I agree with gwb123.

 

I'd go farther and say these are fantasy "souvenir" patches. Made only for the fantasy market, never made for wear, made well after the bullets stopped flying.

I would disagree with the word "fantasy". I did random research on a number of the patch's and the groups were in fact in country at that time. The amount of research that went into making all of the variations took time. Desert Shield / Storm was a brief affair that didn't last very long. I have a buddy that is 82nd AB and on the tail end of an 18 month stint in Afghanistan (his 3rd tour) he told me they had a dozen patch's made for his group only on his first tour. They had a local make them and they only wore them off base on patrol. I know the locals make patch's in real time that reflect the groups big and small their at that time and the numbers of patch's made can be a dozen or in the hundreds. The possible variations of patch's made in country are limitless. As for these patch's I think they were intended for the guys that returned. I do not think they were made for the public at large. My reason for thinking this the shear number of different patch's that only reflect the 1st Cav, component groups and no other. You will not see this type patch made for any other group. That is a very narrow market. Look at the period made patch's made at that time for the civilian market and they are patriotic and very broad in appeal. These are just too narrow and focused to have a mass selling appeal. The number of these patch's that can be found on line with hours of searching are small, very small. The time invested in the research of that one outfit and design patch's for every group and then to only make a small number of each patch is not a good way to make allot of money unless you are banking on those guys in that outfit and in those groups buying that patch. IMHO.

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This is a civilian contractors BDU in my collection. The name tag and ammunition manager patch are made in country, yet he has one of those mass produced morale patch's sewn to his pocket. Anything was possible at that time.

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They are simply souvenir patches with no real collecting value. They were made for vets well after Desert Storm was over with. Books like Morgan and Stein confused a lot of new collectors thinking that patches like these were something substantial, which they are not. They look cool, but don't expect your investment to be returned on them.

 

-Ski

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They are simply souvenir patches with no real collecting value. They were made for vets well after Desert Storm was over with. Books like Morgan and Stein confused a lot of new collectors thinking that patches like these were something substantial, which they are not. They look cool, but don't expect your investment to be returned on them.

 

-Ski

I would agree with the first part of your post and differ to a small degree on the last part. I have found over the last 40 years or so collecting that things are not worth collecting until people start collecting them. Things that had little or no value in the 70's are collectable now.
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I look at it as it's either a piece of history, or it's not. Made after the war as a souvenir falls in the "not" category to me. Unfortunately, as time goes on the water gets muddier (thanks to ill informed books like Ski pointed out) things become accepted, then more valuable. Maybe a few were worn here and there, but if I put a commercial Coke or Burger King patch on my uniform (yes, this happened!), does that suddenly make it a military collectible? There are some exceptions you might call them, like the ODS patch on the desert uniform above. These were sold at in-country BXs during and after the war, and a few did make there way onto uniforms very unofficially. That's all most of these are however, commercial patches made as nothing more than a souvenir, not having the character or history of something that's "been there" in my opinion.

 

Randy

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I agree, but if you had those patches on your uniform and you had photo's to back it up that would be freezing cool. On this forum I saw Vietnam era photo's of a guy in country wearing a WW2 German helmet his dad picked up in WW2. Way cool!

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I like them

 

They are nice patches and if you are not a purist they look great as a collection or Desert Storm vet tribute.

 

If you like them thats all that matters.

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  • 2 weeks later...

For those interested in these patches I’ll point out a few things I’ve noticed about them over the years (I’m the guy who bought them from P-59A, thanks again P-59A). The patches pictured in Steins book, the patches for sale on sites like Saunders Military insignia etc. as well as 99% of the patches of this style sold on eBay are, I believe, mass produced in Taiwan. Many will actually have the small made in Taiwan stickers on the back.


The patches pictured by P-59A are not those patches. I purchased a small lot of these years ago and at the time was told they were made in small quantities for 1st cav soldiers upon their return to the states and sold in an off base shop in Texas. I don’t know if this is true (I have no reason not to believe it), some have mentioned a Dennis Streng, I don’t know who he is or if he had anything to do with these but I can tell you they are not as common as some believe. Yes you can buy the mass produced (made in Taiwan) versions all day long on eBay etc. I’ll refer to the Taiwan patches as skinny head versions because they all have a very distinctive skinny headed horse, all have the same construction, backing, are the same size and have the same font… very easy to spot at first glance. I’ve seen about 12 or so skinny head versions (I think there are 10 pictured in Steins book) It’s quite possible there are more versions but I really don’t pay much attention to them as the skinny heads don’t interest me that much.


I do however really enjoy what I have found to be the much harder to find standard head (for lack of a better term) versions that are pictured in this thread. The patches in this grouping vary in construction, backing, font and size etc. I’ll post some follow-up pictures to try and show some of what I’m referring to.


Final note, maybe I’m missing something and these “standard head” patches are really common/easy to get… if you know of a source for the standard head version like the ones pictured let me know, I would love to add any that were not pictured by P-59A to my collection.

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These are the "skinny heads" that you regularly see on eBay and pictured in Stein's book. They are consistant in construction, size, font etc. and will have made in Taiwan stickers on the back (if they haven't been removed or fallen off)

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Here is a comparison of the two styles. The "standard head" type I've seen are larger than the skinny head version, and the fonts/lettering can vary slightly from patch to patch with this type.

 

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Here is a sample of some of the standard heads. I've included a few manufacturing variations from the group... The 545th Border Patrol is the most common type of the standard head type I've seen, I'll post pics of the backs as it maybe easier to see the differences.

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Here are the backs, hopefully the details will show in the pictures. As I mentioned the border patrol patch construction is the most common type I've seen and this is the type I acquired that supposedly came out of Texas. The others range from paper backed, a coarse "cheese cloth", a tighter "cheese cloth" (closer to muslin) and a heavy plastic back unlike any other patch I've seen before.

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Final thoughts-

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the larger standard head versions were produced first, a few picked up by someone looking to make a buck, had a handful of variations produced in a larger quantity (Taiwan) and distributed through some of the larger retailers like Saunders etc.

 

These may not be for everyone but I love the variations, large number of unique designs,color etc. They make for a great display and as I've stated I believe the "standard head" versions are harder to find than people realize. Or maybe I just haven't seen them, either way keep me in mind if you know of a source for these I would like to add to the collection if possible.

 

 

I'll leave it at that for now, it's all conjecture at this point anyway....

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Patchcollector

Thanks cricket for posting this "mini study" and including the detailed front and back photos.I think that they are really cool pieces and like seeing all the different varieties.Some may pronounce them "worthless", and that may be what they are to them but they are speaking only for themselves and not for others in the hobby who enjoy collecting them.

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