glenm Posted October 4, 2017 Share #26 Posted October 4, 2017 Listen to zsmith.... that's the rub of this helmet. How could this guy be in Normandy or even the ETO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted October 4, 2017 Share #27 Posted October 4, 2017 Any guesses on what this one is gonna go for? I'm in it to win it I'm thinking well over 5k I doubt it will even get close to $2k unless there is some solid proof of it being used in an invasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Hazard Posted October 4, 2017 Share #28 Posted October 4, 2017 I've seen an alleged amphibious M1 helmet from the PTO that had a partial grey band painted, supposedly they were ordered to paint one anytime they went ashore. I'll have to find the thread. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pararaftanr2 Posted October 4, 2017 Share #29 Posted October 4, 2017 If it were "James L Adams", wouldn't there be a period after the middle initial? That is the conventional way to represent a middle initial, by following it with a period. To my eyes, it appears to be a capitol "I", followed by a period, for the middle initial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted October 4, 2017 Share #30 Posted October 4, 2017 Any guesses on what this one is gonna go for? I'm in it to win it I'm thinking we'll over 5k I will sell you mine for $4995.00 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamingeagles101 Posted October 4, 2017 Share #31 Posted October 4, 2017 If it were "James L Adams", wouldn't there be a period after the middle initial? That is the conventional way to represent a middle initial, by following it with a period. To my eyes, it appears to be a capitol "I", followed by a period, for the middle initial. Good observation. Worth a shot! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glidertrooper Posted October 4, 2017 Share #32 Posted October 4, 2017 What did a bugler even do in the Navy besides bugle? Don't know if it was the same for the US military, but in the British Army at least up to and including the Cold War period, if you were any sort of bandsman then your combat role was stretcher bearer. If that applied in this case it would account for the Shore Party helmet marking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamingeagles101 Posted October 4, 2017 Share #33 Posted October 4, 2017 I currently hold the highest bid, but not for long probably hahah Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWIIDADS Posted October 4, 2017 Share #34 Posted October 4, 2017 Just so y'all know, this helmet came out of California, not Pennsylvania. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamingeagles101 Posted October 4, 2017 Share #35 Posted October 4, 2017 Just so y'all know, this helmet came out of California, not Pennsylvania. How do you know? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted October 5, 2017 Share #36 Posted October 5, 2017 This is very convincing. The paint looks authentic and overall it doesn't look messed with. Even more convincing is the seller appearing honest in claiming no real knowledge about military items. Hopefully the seller can provide some more info on this helmet, or someone can find some using the name on the sweatband. Even with the apparent absence of any red flags, this kind of thing is far less appealing without any solid history. This probably isn't very constructive, but the more paranoid part of me can't ignore the possibility that this is some kind of elaborate ruse. So far the seller has provided no history of this helmet, and assuming the sellers answer to requests for history are dead ends, there will be little possibility of truly authenticating this item. We also have no idea how this sellers business operates, and it's possible that they are selling this item for a customer or a friend. If I was someone within the militaria buying an selling sphere and wanted to dump a fake lid on eBay I would not want to do so on my personal account, or any account with a history of buying and selling militaria. I would much rather bring it into an antique dealer or pawn shop that offers the service of selling items on consignment through eBay. This gives the "out of the woodwork" impression. It also keeps you anonymous and protected from the scrutiny of potential buyers. I am leaning towards this helmet being authentic, but I personally would never bid on any high end painted lid unless there was solid evidence of it's authenticity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Posted October 5, 2017 Share #37 Posted October 5, 2017 ... I personally would never bid on any high end painted lid unless there was solid evidence of it's authenticity. Amen. P.S. - Love the dog in your avatar pic. Cutie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Hazard Posted October 5, 2017 Share #38 Posted October 5, 2017 I don't see any red flags with the helmet itself, looks like its legit. I don't think any forger would paint a bugle on the front either; if it was a fake then they'd go with the obvious beach battalion markings like the recent abominations we've seen from the one-that-shall-not-be-named. As for the seller, look at their other items for sale, they are completely unrelated to militaria (books, porcelain, paintings, vintage dolls etc.) so I guess the seller is pretty clueless about this helmet, they even posted it in the field gear section instead of the helmet section. There is no history of the helmet, therefore it will affect it's final price significantly. Just some thoughts Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamingeagles101 Posted October 5, 2017 Share #39 Posted October 5, 2017 I don't see any red flags with the helmet itself, looks like its legit. I don't think any forger would paint a bugle on the front either; if it was a fake then they'd go with the obvious beach battalion markings like the recent abominations we've seen from the one-that-shall-not-be-named. As for the seller, look at their other items for sale, they are completely unrelated to militaria (books, porcelain, paintings, vintage dolls etc.) so I guess the seller is pretty clueless about this helmet, they even posted it in the field gear section instead of the helmet section. There is no history of the helmet, therefore it will affect it's final price significantly. Just some thoughts Pat The first thing I normally do is check what else the sellers other items. I also noticed it was listed in the field gear section... I believe he has no clue what he has but is going to be in for a big surprise. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamingeagles101 Posted October 5, 2017 Share #40 Posted October 5, 2017 Common! Who outbid me?! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costa Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share #41 Posted October 5, 2017 this lid wasn't used much at all. the inside of the liner is very clean. over all looks as if it were sitting in a locker or on a shelf. I don't think it saw action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anton67 Posted October 5, 2017 Share #42 Posted October 5, 2017 If you pay $5K for this helmet I feel sorry for you. I think that it is worth under $2K. The seller to,d me he was offered $1,500 but turned it down t let the auction ride. It's up to $1,625.00 so someone likes it. Good luck bidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted October 5, 2017 Share #43 Posted October 5, 2017 this lid wasn't used much at all. the inside of the liner is very clean. over all looks as if it were sitting in a locker or on a shelf. I don't think it saw action. It certainly hasn't been worn much, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have been used for a few days, that's all it takes to be a D-Day helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pararaftanr2 Posted October 5, 2017 Share #44 Posted October 5, 2017 The gray band was not exclusive to the Normandy "D-Day". It can be seen being worn by members of the Navy shore party for Operation Dragoon as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamingeagles101 Posted October 5, 2017 Share #45 Posted October 5, 2017 The gray band was not exclusive to the Normandy "D-Day". It can be seen being worn by members of the Navy shore party for Operation Dragoon as well. So I guess it wasn't a d day thing but an invasion thing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Posted October 5, 2017 Share #46 Posted October 5, 2017 So, humor me for a second: I'm trying to rationalize the paint application on the shell. Is the assumption that the bugle and invasion band were painted at the same time? If not, and the bugle was painted first, how would I interpret the fact that it just happened to be painted high enough that the later-applied band fit perfectly under it. Every rank, qualification, etc, I've ever seen painted on a helmet was place considerably lower / closer to the brim. To me anyway, this seems like abnormally high placement. Ok, maybe the stripe was painted first. If that was the case, then why was the bugle applied? If we accept the fact that the role of a bugler would have been something other than bugling in an invasion, why paint that on the helmet ("hey, just want everybody to be aware, I'm normally a bugler"). I know, I know, there are precious few standards on how helmets were painted. However, with no name, provenance, etc, I'm just trying to make sense of what I'm seeing. As the saying goes, I'm trying to see what's there, versus what I may want to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamingeagles101 Posted October 5, 2017 Share #47 Posted October 5, 2017 So, humor me for a second: I'm trying to rationalize the paint application on the shell. Is the assumption that the bugle and invasion band were painted at the same time? If not, and the bugle was painted first, how would I interpret the fact that it just happened to be painted high enough that the later-applied band fit perfectly under it. Every rank, qualification, etc, I've ever seen painted on a helmet was place considerably lower / closer to the brim. To me anyway, this seems like abnormally high placement. Ok, maybe the stripe was painted first. If that was the case, then why was the bugle applied? If we accept the fact that the role of a bugler would have been something other than bugling in an invasion, why paint that on the helmet ("hey, just want everybody to be aware, I'm normally a bugler"). I know, I know, there are precious few standards on how helmets were painted. However, with no name, provenance, etc, I'm just trying to make sense of what I'm seeing. As the saying goes, I'm trying to see what's there, versus what I may want to see. If I'm not mistaken, some one said the bugle is actually a rank? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntssurplus Posted October 5, 2017 Share #48 Posted October 5, 2017 bugrank.png bugrank1.png Yes it could be connected to a rank. would be easier to just have the bugle instead of the full rank in my opinion. Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntssurplus Posted October 5, 2017 Share #49 Posted October 5, 2017 here are the pictures because it just showed the links: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Posted October 5, 2017 Share #50 Posted October 5, 2017 A bugle is a rating, not a rank. For example, the picture Ron added earlier, and Hunt just again, is a Petty Officer 2nd Class rate (in Navy terms), with a bugler occupation or "rating". The term "rank" doesn't properly apply in Naval parlance, as I understand it. If I'm not mistaken, some one said the bugle is actually a rank? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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