Blade Marked Imperial for Study

[SKIPH]

Stumbled on this blade marked Imperial M3 this morning. Ebay # 292265094339. Staring bid $100. Blade condition caught my eye, so I checked it out. Blade marked Imperials seem to be abundant, so almost let it pass. I then noticed the handle, "V +" grooves, kind of deep, and did not have the usual Imperial shape.. But what really caught my eye was the 2 ordinance stamps on the pommel. One stamp was on the tang, never seen that on any legit M3. I don't know the seller. Check it out and see what else you can find, or what I missed at 0500. SKIP

[tarbridge]

[tarbridge]

[MattS]

I thought 8-groove handles were the norm on M3s, but I'm still learning about M3s so correct me if I'm wrong.

 

"The M3 knife normally had a grip of stacked leather washers with 8 "square" grooves (that is, grooves with parallel sides). The grooves were made by either using leather washers of different diameters (#3 and #2 washers) or by cutting the grooves into a single diameter washer during the finishing process (called "hafting" in the industry). Close inspection can allow the collector to determine which version they have by observing whether the washers are all the same width or if the groove has been cut into the washers."

 

From: http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/bayo_points_16.htm

[sactroop]

Wish I could see a closer image of the stamp. From the closest picture I think I might be seeing something similar to the Utica we were taking about previously. Is it me or do I see what looks like tiny pitting in the bottom of at least some of the letters? I can't think of a reason for a stamp to leave that. The overall condition of the knife would seem to rule out the roughness being a result of previous neglect and some corrosion.

Six, seven, eight, nine, the number of grooves vary. When your looking at M3's avoid looking at them as the group. Each manufacture did things slightly differently. For instance a Camillus M3 won't have a peened or staked pommel.

[MattS]

Six, seven, eight, nine, the number of grooves vary. When your looking at M3's avoid looking at them as the group. Each manufacture did things slightly differently. For instance a Camillus M3 won't have a peened or staked pommel.

 

Thanks for that, like I said, still learning.

[sactroop]

Trust me, Me Too.

[SKIPH]

MattS- Imperial blade marked M3s normally have 8, square cut grooves. Later guard marked Imperials did have 6 "V" cut grooves. If I recall correctly there may have been some Imperial blade-dated M3s had 7 grooves. The scabbard is nice and appears to be like the ones Imperial used for their PX, and post war M3s

As far as the blade stamp, it looks good to me. But I could be wrong. This knife does throw out my theory about no one rebuilding/ or faking Imperials due to the large number produced. LOL!

Robert- Thanks for posting the pictures. SKIP

[MattS]

So this is a blade marked Imperial with a later style 6-groove handle? Not very common combination I take it?

[SKIPH]

MattS- The shape of the handle is not typical for blade marked, or guard marked Imperials, 6 groove came at the end of production. I also stand corrected on late Imperial M3s w/ "V" cut grooves. It is the Imperial M4s that had square, and "V" cuts. My mistake, sorry for any confusion. The Ordinance stamp on the tang, never seen that on any M3 except some fakes/rebuilds. Manufacturers never did that. SKIP

[MattS]

Thanks for explaining Skip, I'm trying to learn more about these.

[paulvanderworp]

What about the missing black spacers?

[SKIPH]

Most Imperial blade marked M3s did not have black spacers. Not sure why they were not used on blade marked, because they went to brown spacers, for the guard marked.

[paulvanderworp]

Oke, thanks Skip.