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What do we Really Know? The Fur Cap of the North China Marines


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#26 USmilitaryMuseum

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 07:32 AM

Im just curious and also for reference, what is the value of a fur hat such as your example? 

 

Jacob



#27 kanemono

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 08:54 AM

Here is another photograph that shows the variation in fur hats. This picture is from the mid 30's.

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#28 Dirk

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 11:55 AM

As to value. Until this can be proven 100% that this is a early China Marine hat, it is as valuable as the price one would pay for a old fur cap with enambled diamond. As noted above this hat has a number of positives indicators, but I still have more research to do before I could even estimate. However, if your talking about a late 1930's Tientsin marked cap with line company diamond, a few prices I have seen ran 2-4K.

Edited by Dirk, 06 September 2017 - 11:58 AM.


#29 USmilitaryMuseum

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 12:10 PM

As to value. Until this can be proven 100% that this is a early China Marine hat, it is as valuable as the price one would pay for a old fur cap with enambled diamond. As noted above this hat has a number of positives indicators, but I still have more research to do before I could even estimate. However, if your talking about a late 1930's Tientsin marked cap with line company diamond, a few prices I have seen ran 2-4K.

Wow, thanks.  I'll have to be on the lookout for one haha.

 

Jacob



#30 usmcaviator

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 12:05 PM

I have already expressed my congratulations to Dirk on what I feel is an authentic mid-1920's to early 1930's Chinese made winter fur cap, most likely made from Siberian weasel (the most prevalent and cost effective traded fur in China) and made in the Russian Ushanka style.  Although it doesn't conform to known examples in the Marine collection and private hands (which as Dirk pointed out, are all from the mid to late 1930's) I do believe it to have been brought back to the states by a US Marine.  Dirk and I have studied hundreds of photos from his and my collection and it is obvious that there was a decent amount of variation in style and color throughout the years.  We will probably never know how many different makers existed and whether there was any form of quality control or regulations by the Marines or Army in regards to style and color.  The enameled diamond is a no doubt original and conforms to all original known aspects. 

 

Mike Manifor



#31 Dirk

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 03:07 PM

Recently, I picked up a copy of a China Marine publication that had this image that illustrates my point perfectly, of the two styles of fur caps being worn at the same time...in this case during Winter 1939-40. 

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#32 warguy

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 03:55 PM

Great photo that perfectly depicts the two styles. Thanks for posting. Kevin

#33 devildog34

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 11:35 PM

Glad you like this one Dirk, was sad to see it go but I knew it went to the right place.

Semper Fi



#34 Dirk

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 04:17 PM

Thanks Kevin! It sure has given us all something to study and learn from!

#35 Dirk

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 01:07 PM

I thought I would add and update on my hat investigation....first here is a conventional mid-to late 1930's cap. Textbook when compared to known examples in the Marine Corps museum collection. Not much more to add on the construction or color at this time. The fur is most likely rabbit....or so saith a long established fur store who inspected both caps. As soon as I pulled it out of the case both women said "rabbit" in about 1 second and then proceeded to show me examples of rabbit fur and how to identify it. Rabbit is cheap, warm and provides a large pelt. My first cap that opened this thread is a bit more interesting....Beaver. Beavers were, are found along the Mongolian border and many of those have rust colored pelts....just like the original hat posted before it was dyed. Beaver is a far more durable than rabbit and more costly. The hat is Chinese made, that we are pretty certain on, having many sub components that match known Legation Guard hats. This week the Rupertus family contacted me and were kind enough to provide scans of photos from the Generals collection. Here are two interesting photos, one of an unidentified Marine with no Diamond and some Mounted Marines c. 1929-30, the first year the enameled diamond was worn....the shape of some of these caps match the Beaver cap....but again we can't tell cap color. Private purchase, or for civilian use, or issued is still unclear. In two weeks it is back to the Museum to examine their holdings again. Both photos courtesy of the Rupertus Family Collection.

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Edited by Dirk, 29 June 2018 - 01:17 PM.


#36 Dirk

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 01:11 PM

Photo courtesy the Rupertus Family Collection

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