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US Navy issues trademark infringements on auctions


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#1 empireguns

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 05:57 AM

A friend had all his auctions and sales ads cancelled that had any US Navy items in them. (Ebay still has loads of them up) The received a trademark infringement notice delivered by Trademark licensing office of Naval research.  I contacted an individual in that office who confirmed any and all items with US navy on them are now being actively claimed by the Navy. They delivered notices to Etsy and Ebay to cancel all auction Etsy did so right away. Ebay has not completed it yet.

 

 

She states you have to submit all items to her office for review before they will not challenge your selling of them. I cannot see how this will stand up to judicial review. 

 

She referred me to Secnav instructions 587.7

 

http://govdocs.rutge...navy/5870.7.pdf

 

 

These actions seem to be overreaching and need some attention by someone of merit.



#2 empireguns

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 05:59 AM

some excerpts

 

 

Indicator
.
Any and all words, symbols, logos, patches,
colors, sounds, seals, emblems, domain names, names of battles,
names of ships, aircraft, and other platforms,
systems, and technologies,
and other officially adopted visual
and
or oral
displays
in use or intended to be used, by DON.
 
The term"indicator
" includes, but is not limited to, any DON registered
or common law trademark
.
b.Trademark.Trademarks, service marks, certification marks,collective marks, or
collective membership marks
,
as those terms are defined by reference (a)
, and includes both
registered and common law trademarks.
c.
DON Indicators
.
All DON indicators and trademarks.
d.
Navy Indicators
.
A
ll DON indicators and trademarks,excluding "USMC indicators.
"
e.
USMC Indicators
.
All indicators and trademarks
referring to, relating to, or controlled by the USMC or any USMC
activities.
f
.
Roster
.
A
set of business records
maintained by DON
listing all
authorized
indicators
and
trademarks
.

Edited by empireguns, 29 August 2017 - 06:05 AM.


#3 Teamski

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 06:03 AM

Sooooo...... Does this include items being resold that were originally issues or produced for the Navy or items that were produced through 3rd party sources, i.e. t-shirts?  I can understand the later but not the former.  That would violate private property laws....but hey, congress is doing a great job on that too with the PH.

 

-Ski

 

p.s.   Since when does the US Navy own the naming rights to battles????


Edited by Teamski, 29 August 2017 - 06:03 AM.


#4 empireguns

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 06:06 AM

They have a trademark attorney  Mike Badagliacca 703 696 4022  but cannot get a hold of him  rings then hangs up



#5 Bob Hudson

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 06:07 AM

I suspect this involves someone selling new items made without license.



#6 empireguns

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 06:11 AM

I suspect this involves someone selling new items made without license.

 

Yes most likely  but the person i spoke with , a Miss Villanueva in that office stated that Ebay and Etsy would not work with them so they delivered a notice that includes all items. She actually stated you have to submit your items for review to their office.  The cost alone for that would not justify the end money they would receive from licensing.  we should find the email and flood it with 10000's of single small items for review.


Edited by empireguns, 29 August 2017 - 06:11 AM.


#7 Thor996

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 06:16 AM

unreal what the heck is the entire world is going insane ?

#8 Bob Hudson

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 06:24 AM

 

Yes most likely  but the person i spoke with , a Miss Villanueva in that office stated that Ebay and Etsy would not work with them so they delivered a notice that includes all items. She actually stated you have to submit your items for review to their office.  The cost alone for that would not justify the end money they would receive from licensing.  we should find the email and flood it with 10000's of single small items for review.

 

The Marines were the first service to start an agressive enforcement of copyrights: this is not the NCAA or NFL and the basic premise of it sucks, but who's got the money to challenge the federal government on something like this?



#9 Teamski

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 06:27 AM

 

Yes most likely  but the person i spoke with , a Miss Villanueva in that office stated that Ebay and Etsy would not work with them so they delivered a notice that includes all items. She actually stated you have to submit your items for review to their office.  The cost alone for that would not justify the end money they would receive from licensing.  we should find the email and flood it with 10000's of single small items for review.

 

 

We should!  That would be hilarious!  So, each little EGA you want to sell, just send them a request first.  How about all those squadron patches?  It would be hilarious!  This is why the military in general don't screw around with it except in cases where there is a true impact.  I best some new ensign straight out of the academy decided to make an name for themselves and opened up a huge can of worms.  On a serious note,this does have a huge impact if E-Bay decides to pull military listings altogether.   They always go overboard. That could be very, very bad.  We already lost the PH and other valor medals......

 

The secondary market should never have been touched.

 

-Ski


Edited by Teamski, 29 August 2017 - 06:28 AM.


#10 Thor996

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 06:34 AM

I for one would not be shocked to see yet another knee jerk idiotic ebay reaction -

#11 Bob Hudson

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 06:47 AM

The Marines were doing this 5 years ago: http://www.usmilitar...ntinued-by-atf/



#12 Dave

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 06:48 AM

Well, with over 50,000 auctions currently running that have "US Navy" or some sort of Navy-related image in them, I think this is kind of an unwinnable battle for the Navy. I haven't seen a lack of EGAs for sale since the Marines decided to enforce their trademark, and that was a couple of years ago.



#13 doyler

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 07:09 AM

I for one would not be shocked to see yet another knee jerk idiotic ebay reaction -


Thats it brother...+1

#14 Bearmon

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 12:43 PM

I wonder what goods and services the US Navy is protecting?
Here is a definition of trademark infringement.
Again I use commonsense which in no way applies to the law.
spengler-chap09-13-638.jpg

#15 67Rally

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 01:02 PM

Well, with over 50,000 auctions currently running that have "US Navy" or some sort of Navy-related image in them, I think this is kind of an unwinnable battle for the Navy. I haven't seen a lack of EGAs for sale since the Marines decided to enforce their trademark, and that was a couple of years ago.

 

Well. since training surface warfare officers proper shiphandling and safe navigation due to it being too costly (because losing 17 sailors and billions on reconstruction of heavily damaged ships is considered a normal operating cost), it makes sense to hire attorneys to pursue a collector selling a WWII yeoman 3/c rating badge (for $2.37 + shipping) for all the financial ruin they are costing the Navy with the sale.

Yep...this makes sense!



#16 Dave

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 01:04 PM

So I read through the SECNAV instruction. I'm not a lawyer, but after reading it, what it appears they are trying to do (and note, this is from 2011, so this isn't a new policy...) is retain control over the commercial use of Navy-related "indicators" (as defined above and in the instruction). Basically, if you're going to make a beach blanket with the Navy logo on it, they want to authorize use of the logo, and then take royalties from it. It's exactly the same thing if you were trying to make beach blankets with the NFL logos. Use the logo without permission, and boom...lawsuit time.

 

What I did NOT read anywhere in the instruction was their desire to retain control over old Navy memorabilia. No where in the instruction did they say that they were attempting to control the use of Navy-related items on the historical or surplus market. Even if they did say that, they would be fighting a losing battle...you can't expect all 432,000 currently serving (active and reserve) personnel to control the use/reuse of their personally-acquired and personally-purchased Navy-related uniforms, equipment, etc., let alone attempt to control the millions of veterans and retired personnel. The very idea is laughable...and not only laughable, but would also very likely lose in court.

 

Considering this policy was signed almost exactly six years ago and has yet to be enforced in any serious manner, I'm not going to lose much sleep over my ability to buy and/or sell Navy or Marine Corps related items on eBay. 



#17 Teamski

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 03:11 PM

I'm more worried about E-Bay than I am the Navy.

 

-Ski



#18 nagmashdriver

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 11:54 PM

I left eBay as a seller in 2015 and went to Etsy, now called Etsbay as they are emulating all of eBay's worst practices.

 

Got the odious email from the Etsbay legal department a few days ago and was shocked at the content. One hundred and eight items were removed as being in violation of trademark law. What utter bovine excrement!!

 

Like the navy has better things to do, what with China rising, Russia rebuilding and Iran and North Korea  beating war drums. Oh yeah; almost forgot: the US Navy has a little problem with it's warships colliding with other ships lately and killing sailors. What a farce. I'll just relist them without the "US" or use "sailor" or some other euphemism. Or I'll just list them on another website altogether.



#19 Thor996

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 02:32 AM

I left eBay as a seller in 2015 and went to Etsy, now called Etsbay as they are emulating all of eBay's worst practices.

 

great I was going to drop ebay to go to etsbay....

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Edited by Thor996, 31 August 2017 - 02:33 AM.


#20 empireguns

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 03:02 AM

Spoke with the Navy attorney and he apologized and advised he is working on the newer memos. Vintage items are not of concern to them at all. They were just caught up in the movement to crack down on illegal items. Etsy and ebay were not working with them so they issued a blanket trademark advisory. Now that they have their attention they want to clarify the position. We of course bear the brunt of that. but you can relist your items and they won't be after you at all.



#21 Teamski

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 06:34 AM

Spoke with the Navy attorney and he apologized and advised he is working on the newer memos. Vintage items are not of concern to them at all. They were just caught up in the movement to crack down on illegal items. Etsy and ebay were not working with them so they issued a blanket trademark advisory. Now that they have their attention they want to clarify the position. We of course bear the brunt of that. but you can relist your items and they won't be after you at all.

 

 

Excellent.  Thank you for doing that!  This whole thing has a huge run-on impact on our entire hobby.

 

-Ski



#22 Thor996

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 07:39 AM

agree w Ski - thank u - Dave

#23 doyler

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 07:49 AM

Spoke with the Navy attorney and he apologized and advised he is working on the newer memos. Vintage items are not of concern to them at all. They were just caught up in the movement to crack down on illegal items. Etsy and ebay were not working with them so they issued a blanket trademark advisory. Now that they have their attention they want to clarify the position. We of course bear the brunt of that. but you can relist your items and they won't be after you at all.


Thats good to hear the Navy side but will ebay and others understand the policy or just do the typical blanket rule and apply the ban and same logic they do to the criiked cross items???

#24 empireguns

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 05:25 PM

agree w Ski - thank u - Dave

 

 

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#25 nagmashdriver

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 11:05 AM

Hey guys,

Been busy as hell lately; got this email on the 6th, a week ago already. Etsy admitted in so many words that they went overboard (pun intended) but they didn't apologize; that would indicate that somebody screwed up!

 

Hello:

We're following up regarding our previous email to you notifying you about an allegation of infringement from the United States Navy ([email protected]).

After further investigation of this notice of infringement, we have reason to believe the notice included listings that were not adequately reviewed by the complaining party. We have reached out to them directly and have also made a note of this in your account. We have also ensured that any negative action impacting your Etsy account based on this notice has been withdrawn.

Please note that this notification does not mean that The United States Navy’s has cleared or approved your listing content with respect to their trademarks. You must comply with Etsy’s policies, including our Intellectual Property Policy. Please do not re-list the content until any open issues have been resolved.

If you have any questions about this matter, please contact [email protected] (703-696-4002) and see additional information about the Navy’s licensing program at http://www.navy.mil/trademarks/.

Thank you for your understanding and we apologize for the inconvenience.

Best regards,
Howard
Etsy Legal
https://www.etsy.com/help

―――

This message is a private conversation between you and Etsy. Please respect this confidentiality and refrain from distributing this communication without permission from Etsy. If you feel this message was sent to you in error, please delete it and let us know. Thank you.

If you live in North America or South America, this email is sent by Etsy, Inc., 117 Adams Street, Brooklyn, NY 11201, USA; if you live elsewhere, this email is sent by Etsy Ireland UC, a subsidiary of Etsy, Inc., 66/67 Great Strand Street, Dublin 1, D01 RW84, Ireland having company registration number 495696 and VAT registration number IE9777587C. All rights reserved.




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