Need info on KA-BAR USN MK2 Sheath

[usmce4]

Can anybody tell me if KA-BAR USN MK2s were issued in Boyt sheaths as well as the Nord scabbards?

 

Thanks, Art

[doyler]

Yes

 

I have examples in leather scabbards both Boyt marked and unmarked

 

There are examples on the forum

[sactroop]

I believe the Navy changed over to the plastic sheath late in 1943. Notes on some documents from Camillus puts the change over for them about mid December. Camillus would have been supplying the Navy knives for about a year with leather sheaths prior to that change over.

[usmce4]

This is the knife in question - USN KABAR Guard Marked Peened Tang

Would a Boyt be the proper sheath for this?

Thanks for the answers

[dustin]

That's a pretty late production KA-BAR, a plastic scabbard would be the most appropriate for that. I notice in your image there is a plastic scabbard, what is the contract number on it?

Contracts for the plastic scabbards were negotiated and awarded in November 1943, deliveries didn't start to occur till late spring/early summer 1944. This initial contract was orientated towards replacement for those knives already in service but also to be integrated into production as a standard on all future deliveries for both the Mark 1 and Mark 2. Though examples were reaching contractors and supply points in the second half of the calendar year 1944, they really weren't in the combat zone in any great numbers till 1945. I believe the earliest visual evidence is them being used on Iwo Jima?

[usmce4]

That's a pretty late production KA-BAR, a plastic scabbard would be the most appropriate for that. I notice in your image there is a plastic scabbard, what is the contract number on it?

Contracts for the plastic scabbards were negotiated and awarded in November 1943, deliveries didn't start to occur till late spring/early summer 1944. This initial contract was orientated towards replacement for those knives already in service but also to be integrated into production as a standard on all future deliveries for both the Mark 1 and Mark 2. Though examples were reaching contractors and supply points in the second half of the calendar year 1944, they really weren't in the combat zone in any great numbers till 1945. I believe the earliest visual evidence is them being used on Iwo Jima?

 

Scabbard is NORD 4723 which is 1943 (or 1st contract) .

Problem is the knife is way to minty to keep it in that scabbard so I want to put in in a leather one.

And the guard markings make the knife a later issue, but the peened tang make it a mid war issue so I'm wondering would a Boyt 43 be appropriate.

 

Thanks Art

[sactroop]

That's a pretty late production KA-BAR, a plastic scabbard would be the most appropriate for that. I notice in your image there is a plastic scabbard, what is the contract number on it?

Contracts for the plastic scabbards were negotiated and awarded in November 1943, deliveries didn't start to occur till late spring/early summer 1944. This initial contract was orientated towards replacement for those knives already in service but also to be integrated into production as a standard on all future deliveries for both the Mark 1 and Mark 2. Though examples were reaching contractors and supply points in the second half of the calendar year 1944, they really weren't in the combat zone in any great numbers till 1945. I believe the earliest visual evidence is them being used on Iwo Jima?

 

Thanks Dustin. Sort of looks like the late 43 date recorded by Camillus probably just reflects the intention moving forward of the Navy switching to the new plastic sheath, and not actual change over.

 

Here are some pages from one Camillus document I referred to earlier.

 

 

While the pages are dated during WW2 production, it doesn't look like the document was either compiled or at least published until the early 60's.

IMHO, the list of makers for the Navy Mk2's got mixed up with at least some of the makers for the Mk1 knives.

 

 

On this document it shows a date 9/13/44 when referring to the Mk1 sheaths. This maybe at least closer to the time of actual delivery and change over?

[sactroop]

Here's the page from Camillus referring to the U.S.M.C. 1219C2's.

 

 

Keep in mind that not all the contractors for the knife sub-contracted to the same sheath makers.

[dustin]

This brings us to having to differentiate "Approved", "Manufacture", and "Issue". All three are different things that pertain to one item. The date of December 1943 is the "Approved". Production or "Manufacture" of the plastic scabbard didn't commence until January 1944. Deliveries or "Issue" started to occur by the late spring, or as reflected by the approval for the Mark 1, of September 1944, which is right more accurate in its actual availability. The initial contract was divided for plastic scabbards for both the 5- & 7-inch knives. Technically speaking, the plastic scabbard should had been approved for the Mark 1 in December 1943 as well since they were part of the actual negotiation of the contract.

Documents such as these are "clues" or pieces to a puzzle, they require other documents and information to clarify certain aspects. It does help that I have the production records from Beckwith Mfg. so I'm speaking from documented information.

 

That would be pretty significant if your right about mixing up contracts between the two patterns, but just speculation. The two would be Boker and Union in the 1942-3 section, which would explain a little why they are the harder to find Mark 1 types with such low production numbers listed as compared to the other manufacturers.

 

I'm not well versed yet on the variation of the finer design features of the 1219c/Mark 2, but the one in question here really straddles that line of the transition period from leather scabbards to plastic. IMHO either would be appropriate, and I don't think any of the variation of leather sheaths were proprietary to any one manufacture of knives. Put your knife in any period correct sheath that your heart desires.

[usmce4]

Thanks all very much for the help as well as the technical info. Your time is appreciated.

Art