Button help.

[rhill13]

Picked up some buttons at an antique mall. From looking around the site I'm thinking mostly post civil war. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

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[rhill13]

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[rhill13]

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[dag]

Definitely all post Civil War, at least from the first two groups.

First group, all US Marines. Don't have my backmark books in front of me, but at a glance could range from late 1800's to early/mid 1900's.

Second group are not all military. There were/are a lot of civilian/cosmetic buttons created just to look "military" - lots of anchor buttons fall into that category. But there are a few in your lot that are. There are a few US Navy Chief Petty officer buttons (lower left without stars). Those with stars I've seen listed for Merchant Marine and a fews. Not very clear what those are, possibly multiple uses - both military and non-military.

 

Started this reply before seeing your third group.

 

Third group all US Navy (except those two lower left that are Marines), of various eras. There are a few that MAY be Civil War - a few on the top row. Will need to see the backmarks of those.

[Jumpin Jack]

Most of the buttons in the 2nd grouping, with the possible exception of the small button lower right and the larger two above center right, are WWII German Navy Jack

[dag]

See attached, from:

Record Of American Uniform And Historical Buttons, by Alphaeus H. Albert

[rhill13]

Thanks all. I'm not really a button collector. I'm more interested in having spares for any uniforms I pick up. I just placed an order for that book. Looks like the one to have.

 

 

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[dag]

... I just placed an order for that book. Looks like the one to have.

 

 

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Yes - if you have any interest in US Military buttons, this is THE book to have. Have had mine over 20 years, have almost worn it out using it so much.

[Squeaker]

 

Yes - if you have any interest in US Military buttons, this is THE book to have. Have had mine over 20 years, have almost worn it out using it so much.

x2

[sigsaye]

Definitely all post Civil War, at least from the first two groups.

First group, all US Marines. Don't have my backmark books in front of me, but at a glance could range from late 1800's to early/mid 1900's.

Second group are not all military. There were/are a lot of civilian/cosmetic buttons created just to look "military" - lots of anchor buttons fall into that category. But there are a few in your lot that are. There are a few US Navy Chief Petty officer buttons (lower left without stars). Those with stars I've seen listed for Merchant Marine and a fews. Not very clear what those are, possibly multiple uses - both military and non-military.

 

Started this reply before seeing your third group.

 

Third group all US Navy (except those two lower left that are Marines), of various eras. There are a few that MAY be Civil War - a few on the top row. Will need to see the backmarks of those.

. Sorry, there no USN CPO buttons in the second group. USN CPOs wore the same design buttons as USN officers, just a size smaller on the eight button blue and white coats. 6 button blue, khaki and gray uniform coats had the same as officers.

[dag]

. Sorry, there no USN CPO buttons in the second group. USN CPOs wore the same design buttons as USN officers, just a size smaller on the eight button blue and white coats. 6 button blue, khaki and gray uniform coats had the same as officers.

 

Thanks for the information on what I thought, and Albert thought, were CPO buttons, as listed in his book (screenshot in post #6). I have a few Civil War era buttons of this type (both US makers - NA131, and foreign makers - NA132) that I had listed as CPO per this reference book.

 

Could it be that sometime in the late 1800's or early 1900's that CPO's changed to, and started using US Navy buttons? Other branches did the same, Army for example, consolidating to a common button regardless of rank or arm. It appears that at least some of these buttons in this thread have US manufacturers and are therefore likely not for foreign Navy use.

[sigsaye]

 

Thanks for the information on what I thought, and Albert thought, were CPO buttons, as listed in his book (screenshot in post #6). I have a few Civil War era buttons of this type (both US makers - NA131, and foreign makers - NA132) that I had listed as CPO per this reference book.

 

Could it be that sometime in the late 1800's or early 1900's that CPO's changed to, and started using US Navy buttons? Other branches did the same, Army for example, consolidating to a common button regardless of rank or arm. It appears that at least some of these buttons in this thread have US manufacturers and are therefore likely not for foreign Navy use.

. The Rate of Chief Petty Officer did not come into exsistance until 1893. They used the same buttons design as officers. From 1886 (IIRC) the USN had a "Position" called "Principal Petty Officer" who wore Officer styled uniforms, but used smaller versions of Officer buttons. When enlisted Sailors wore the blow dress jacket, it also had buttons of the same design as officers, just a smaller size.

 

The one button on the left of the screen shot with USNR was used for a short period of time by the Naval Reserve, but was dropped in favor of regular style Navy buttone. I have never known the USN to ever have used plain anchor buttons of this type.

[Justin B.]

Thanks for the information on what I thought, and Albert thought, were CPO buttons, as listed in his book (screenshot in post #6). I have a few Civil War era buttons of this type (both US makers - NA131, and foreign makers - NA132) that I had listed as CPO per this reference book.

 

Could it be that sometime in the late 1800's or early 1900's that CPO's changed to, and started using US Navy buttons? Other branches did the same, Army for example, consolidating to a common button regardless of rank or arm. It appears that at least some of these buttons in this thread have US manufacturers and are therefore likely not for foreign Navy use.

There were no CPOs in the navy until 1893. There were mates and some petty officers who wore officer-type uniforms before that, but they didn't use different buttons. The USN standardized on one design for gilt buttons before the Civil War.

 

Edit: Ah, Steve already covered it!

[dag]

. The Rate of Chief Petty Officer did not come into exsistance until 1893. They used the same buttons design as officers. From 1886 (IIRC) the USN had a "Position" called "Principal Petty Officer" who wore Officer styled uniforms, but used smaller versions of Officer buttons. When enlisted Sailors wore the blow dress jacket, it also had buttons of the same design as officers, just a smaller size.

 

The one button on the left of the screen shot with USNR was used for a short period of time by the Naval Reserve, but was dropped in favor of regular style Navy buttone. I have never known the USN to ever have used plain anchor buttons of this type.

 

Thanks for the info.

[dag]

There is another reference that lists these buttons.

• Uniform Buttons of the United States 1776-1865, by Warren K. Tice

 

[sigsaye]

There is another reference that lists these buttons.

• Uniform Buttons of the United States 1776-1865, by Warren K. Tice

. Top row is correct, lower right is correct pre 1852. Plain anchor button, don't think it's USN.

[Justin B.]

There is another reference that lists these buttons.

• Uniform Buttons of the United States 1776-1865, by Warren K. Tice

 

 

Again, with "chief petty officers" around 1840 they are talking about a rate that wouldn't exist for 50+ years. Maybe some petty officer somewhere wore buttons like that, but AFAIK all regulation USN buttons in the 1800s used the national eagle.

[sigsaye]

 

Again, with "chief petty officers" around 1840 they are talking about a rate that wouldn't exist for 50+ years. Maybe some petty officer somewhere wore buttons like that, but AFAIK all regulation USN buttons in the 1800s used the national eagle.

. Just as Justin Says, all USN buttons were the same. Dress Blue Enlisted Jackets, sold off by the USN as "Surplus" in the 1840s, had the eagle. Please, understand that any button makers made buttons for whoever could pay. Waterbury made buttons for the CS. They made buttons for doting countries too.