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Any news on the Ordnance Museum at Fort Lee?


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#1 Teamski

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 06:47 AM

It's been 7 years since the Ordnance Museum and the rusted wrecks they called tanks was moved to Fort Lee.  Has anybody found any new news about the collection and the future of the museum other than some outdoor exhibits?  I find the whole thing downright unforgivable.  That museum is a national embarrassment.

 

-Ski



#2 aef1917

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 07:23 AM

I heard a while back that someone was looking for some objects from the collection, and none of the curators at Ft. Lee seemed to know where they'd disappeared to.  It's really a shame that they haven't gotten something up and running.



#3 Kration

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 07:33 AM

Back in the day when one visited Aberdeen I remember there was a model of the proposed new Museum being displayed and "donations" were being accepted..  Since that never happened I wonder what ever became of the donations ?

 

 I went through Ft Lee a year or so ago and could see some of the Aberdeen Vehicles near the Rail head, some covered with tarps and some in the open..

 

Miss the old days

Kration


Edited by Kration, 27 July 2017 - 07:33 AM.


#4 River Patrol

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 09:20 AM

I too miss the old days when the tanks were at Aberdeen, but I'm saddened to hear that the new museum is not "functional" yet.....I grew up walking through those tanks at APG 2-3 times a year!



#5 USARV72

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 06:18 PM

Yea, APG had the " tank field", pulled guard duty there when in school. Skunks would walk through there as they pleased. Used to climb up on the Tiger II to get out of their way. Forward to the 90's the MVCC( before MVPA) had the swap meet and show there, those were the days...............

#6 Teamski

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 06:07 AM

If anything, the move to Fort Lee "might" have been the best thing that could have happened to the tanks.  They were so dilapidated by the time I saw them around 2005 I was close to tears.  Seeing a Vickers MkVI tank with the engine fallen through the bottom of the tank and sitting on the ground was just about as reprehensible as you can get.  Irresponsible curatorship defined.

 

-Ski 



#7 hbtcoveralls

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 08:58 AM

The ordnance museum exhibits have been scattered to the wind.

 

Some of the German and American vehicles are in storage at Anniston Alabama, Ft Benning GA, Ft Belvoir (where they will be part of the new museum of the US army) The ADA museum at Ft sill, and others

 

The German tiger "elephant" or Ferdinand is currently in England at the tank museum Bovington for a tiger tank exhibit for a couple of years.

 

I don't know the fate of the small arms exhibits or the iconic items like Pershing's staff car

 

Pretty sad really but that's how the US military treats it's history

 

Tom Bowers



#8 Teamski

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 07:09 AM

The ordnance museum exhibits have been scattered to the wind.

 

Some of the German and American vehicles are in storage at Anniston Alabama, Ft Benning GA, Ft Belvoir (where they will be part of the new museum of the US army) The ADA museum at Ft sill, and others

 

The German tiger "elephant" or Ferdinand is currently in England at the tank museum Bovington for a tiger tank exhibit for a couple of years.

 

I don't know the fate of the small arms exhibits or the iconic items like Pershing's staff car

 

Pretty sad really but that's how the US military treats it's history

 

Tom Bowers

 

 

No, that is how the US Army treats its history.  I know the USAF tends to do a FAR better job of it.  At least at the Air Mobility Command Museum and the USAF Museum.

 

-Ski


Edited by Teamski, 01 August 2017 - 07:09 AM.


#9 willysmb44

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 10:22 AM

I went through APG as a ROTC and later as a LT going through Ordnance OBC. I talked with Dr. Atwater a couple of times about the condition of the outside exhibits, and I heard the expected gripes for lack of funding or budgeting for the preservation of the collection. At one point, they had various tenant units doing their own paint work on specific tanks.

I was in the area in 2009 and got to go there one last time before the Ordnance Center moved out of there for good. Got to see the museum and many vehicles were being moved to areas for later shipments elsewhere. I'm not surprised the collection got scattered to a degree. I'm still bummed I never got to see the collection's Tiger I, which has been in various places over the years (I think in the collection at Benning now?)

I used to go the long way around the post when I could during my time there, to go through the entry past the 'mile of tanks' though it was usually out of my way.

As for history, I agree that the Army might be the worst of the services in that regard. I heard so many times from fellow officers that there wasn't anything to learn from the past. I never encountered anyone who thought otherwise below General ranks. I noted that anyone with stars on their collars seemed to get that lots could be learned from the past, though.


Edited by willysmb44, 01 September 2017 - 10:24 AM.


#10 River Rat 1

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 03:45 PM

I went through APG as a ROTC and later as a LT going through Ordnance OBC. I talked with Dr. Atwater a couple of times about the condition of the outside exhibits, and I heard the expected gripes for lack of funding or budgeting for the preservation of the collection. At one point, they had various tenant units doing their own paint work on specific tanks.

I was in the area in 2009 and got to go there one last time before the Ordnance Center moved out of there for good. Got to see the museum and many vehicles were being moved to areas for later shipments elsewhere. I'm not surprised the collection got scattered to a degree. I'm still bummed I never got to see the collection's Tiger I, which has been in various places over the years (I think in the collection at Benning now?)

I used to go the long way around the post when I could during my time there, to go through the entry past the 'mile of tanks' though it was usually out of my way.

As for history, I agree that the Army might be the worst of the services in that regard. I heard so many times from fellow officers that there wasn't anything to learn from the past. I never encountered anyone who thought otherwise below General ranks. I noted that anyone with stars on their collars seemed to get that lots could be learned from the past, though.

This part you said I heard so many times from fellow officers that there wasn't anything to learn from the past

 

You learn from the past so they don't repeat them self and prevents past mistakes. Some thing our nation has forgotten.


Edited by River Rat 1, 01 September 2017 - 03:46 PM.


#11 dmar836

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 11:24 AM

That's an unbelievable sentiment from our military about history. Sounds like some "leadership" needs to change.
As for the museum, still in touring Belgium. Americans really have no concept of preservation of history and with our military backing such ideas it's no wonder.
If you have the chance to read Col. Boyne's book "The Aircraft Treasures of Silver Hill" do it. It sounds just like govt support for Aberdeen and a similar lead up. Treasures/spoils are shipped back then put out to rot. This makes sense now seeing that there is no emphasis on history in the US Army.
Dave

#12 Teamski

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:20 PM

Found a ton of information on this site (which is awesome!) on where the tanks went after leaving Aberdeen:

 

http://www.preserved...om/Default.aspx

 

Most of the tanks and vehicles at Fort Knox and Aberdeen went to Fort Benning and Fort Sill.  It looks like many of these vehicles are getting the attention they deserve by getting blasted and painted (see photo of of the Brummbar at Fort Sill).  Not all are accounted for , so I assume that some of the vehicles on display at Aberdeen are still there or are at Fort Lee.  Below is an excerpt from the Preserved Tanks site mentioned above showing the initial movements of the tanks out of Fort Knox:

 

 

Base Realignment and Closure (or BRAC) is a process of the United States federal government directed at the administration and operation of the U.S. Armed Forces. It is used by the United States Department of Defense (DoD) and Congress to review the use of and requirements for military installations, generally with the result of closing excess installations to increase efficiency and reduce expenditure on operations and maintenance. As part of the process the U.S. Secretary of Defense forwards his recommendations for realignments and closures to the BRAC Commission, an independent panel appointed by the President. This panel evaluates the list by taking testimony from interested parties and paying visits to affected bases. More than 350 installations were closed in four early BRAC rounds: 1989, 1991, 1993, and 1995. The most recent round of BRAC completed at the end of 2005, and many U.S. military bases are currently in the process of closing or changing function in line with the BRAC mandates.
As a result of BRAC 2005 the U.S. Army Armor Center and School will move from Fort Knox to Fort Benning, Georgia; other units will move to different parts of the country. Conversely the U.S. Army Human Resources Command is being consolidated at Fort Knox and will combine offices currently located in Virginia, Indiana and Missouri. The 3rd Brigade, 1st Infantry Division completed its move from Fort Hood, Texas, to Fort Knox during 2010.
The move of the Armor Center and School to Fort Benning means that the bulk of the vehicles in the Patton Museum of Cavalry and Armor are also required to move to Fort Benning, and the transfer began early in 2010. Meanwhile the existing museum changed its name in September 2010 to the General George Patton Museum.

Schedule of events (source: D. Moriarty and G. Redmon/AFVNDB):

1 March 2010: Military Road Convoy 1 from Farmer Motor Pool to Fort Benning. Vehicles included M24 Chaffee tank, M3 Stuart tank, M3 Stuart tank, M84 APC, LVT, MICV65, M42 Duster SPAAG, M981 ITV, MTLB, PT-76 light tank, T17E1 Staghound armoured car.

16 March 2010: Military Road Convoy 2 from Farmer Motor Pool to Fort Benning. Vehicles included M113A2 APC, M113A2 APC, Bradley MICV, Hummel self-propelled howitzer, AMX-13 light tank, Luchs armoured car, BRDM-2 MICV, TAB 72 armoured car, Ferret scout car, Fox armoured car.

19 October 2010: Internal move from RMP to railhead. Vehicles included M60s, M51, M48A1, Challenger, others.

23 October 2010: Train shipment from FK railhead to Benning. Vehicles included Panther Ausf G, M51 recovery, M51 Sherman, M48, M48A1, M48A2C, M48A5, M48A5E1, M60, M60A1 (x3), M60A3, Challenger, T29E3, T-72, XM803, M47 (3200), Chieftain, M1A1 Abrams, IPM1 Abrams.

5 November 2010: Civilian Road Convoy 1 from RMP to Fort Benning. Vehicles included Comet, Strv 103, T-34-85. T-54, T-55 Enigma, Type 69, Leopard 1, Churchill, LVTP.

8-15 December 2010: Museum emptied. Civilian Road Convoy 2 to Fort Benning. Vehicles included SdKfz 251/9, M8 armoured car, ACAV, Lee, Ontos, Mark V*, 3-Ton, FT, M2A3, M7B2, LVT(A)1, M551, T-34-85, Panther II, Tiger II.

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Edited by Teamski, 02 November 2017 - 01:23 PM.



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