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WW1 Bullion Wing Variations


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#176 rustywings

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 06:25 PM

I tell you Cliff, even from atop the mountain, miles from civilization, viewing your last four contributions on the tiny screen of a cell phone is an absolute treat! Thank you for sharing your terrific images and badges with us!

Russ

#177 hink441

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 04:34 AM

Great wings Cliff. The pictures of the early aviators are so detailed. Is that a squadron pin Lt. Kaye is wearing above his wings?

 

 

Thanks,

Chris



#178 cthomas

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 05:00 PM

Chris - That is indeed a 94th Aero Squadron pin. Also, Lt. Kaye's ship was knicknamed "Eastah Aigg" and was painted all over with those polka dots during the Occupation era. Many of the 94th's Spads were likewise painted with garish themes, like Cliff's next picture of Lt. Harvey W. Cook. Cook's Spad XIII, was coincidentally named "Lightning Bolt".

 

If anyone wants to read more on the showbirds of the 94th AS, take a gander here: http://www.cbrnp.com...1/showbirds.htm



#179 cthomas

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 05:02 PM

This is my Fiances Great Grandfathers tunic He was a Pilot Instructor during WWI.
It is on the right sleeve if I remember correctly
attachicon.gifphpwDL7kvPM.jpg

 

That is a rare wing. What was his name?



#180 Dave

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:18 AM

These photos are of the grandfather of one of the families I visited for my book. His service with the Signal Corps started prior to WW1, and his early photos don't show him wearing a wing, even though he was on flying duty, mapping out areas along the Mexican border. There were a couple great photos of him wearing a wing, probably during WW1; this one was the best.

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  • ww1wing1.jpg


#181 Dave

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:19 AM

And a closeup...

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#182 Dave

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:23 AM

Oh, and here's a link with some info about the fellow: http://earlyaviators.com/emacaule.htm



#183 CliffP

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:32 PM

Hi Dave,

 

If that wing badge was laying on a flat surface it would look very similar to the wings pictured below.

 

Cliff

 

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  • morison wing.jpg


#184 americankraut

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 05:51 PM

 

That is a rare wing. What was his name?

His name was Robert A Temple and the next 3 generations after him to the current one retain the name. He was also an inventor and held many pattens to the US and British military.

 

Does anyone have similar wings or any period photographs?



#185 americankraut

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:00 PM

Some more pictures

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#186 cdking

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 05:33 AM

Close up.

 

Rustywings, Cliff:

 

Referring you back to a 2010 chain regarding Lt. William W. Mathews, I have been recently helping a friend research a relative...his grandfather...who he recently learned was a pilot in WWI. We have the uniform in possession and have been searching for whatever history we can find on him. Our search has led us to Mike O'Neal, who recently sent you (Cliff) a picture of the wings. Attached is a picture of the uniform you see in the picture.

 

How did you learn he was in 18 Squadron? We have been searching for his posting overseas, as also the aircraft he flew. If you could point me in the direction of research materials, I would be much obliged.

 

We have also found a set of his diaries he kept while in Europe. Unfortunately we located them as having been sold on eBay! but the gentleman who bought them is going to send us digital images of the pages.

 

Any information you can share would be fascinating.

 

Thank you in advance for your help!

 

Charles
 

Attached Images

  • Flight_Jacket_Canvas_zps36bff1c9.jpg


#187 cdking

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 05:35 AM

And here is a close-up of the wings...

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  • Jacket_Wings_ small.jpg


#188 cdking

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 05:45 AM

Oops...Now with attachment!

 

 

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  • Jacket_Wings_ small.jpg


#189 CliffP

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 08:45 AM

 

Rustywings, Cliff:

 

Referring you back to a 2010 chain regarding Lt. William W. Mathews, I have been recently helping a friend research a relative...his grandfather...who he recently learned was a pilot in WWI. We have the uniform in possession and have been searching for whatever history we can find on him. Our search has led us to Mike O'Neal, who recently sent you (Cliff) a picture of the wings. Attached is a picture of the uniform you see in the picture.

 

How did you learn he was in 18 Squadron? We have been searching for his posting overseas, as also the aircraft he flew. If you could point me in the direction of research materials, I would be much obliged.

 

We have also found a set of his diaries he kept while in Europe. Unfortunately we located them as having been sold on eBay! but the gentleman who bought them is going to send us digital images of the pages.

 

Any information you can share would be fascinating.

 

Thank you in advance for your help!

 

Charles
 

 

Hello Charles,

 

No big secret, in the book "Wings of Honor - American Airmen in World War I" by James J. Smith, Jr. (Schiffer Publishing Ltd.), on page 227 it lists a William W. Mathews as being a USAS officer trained by the RFC/RAF who was assigned to No. 18 Squadron RFC as of July 1918. . . but that is all.

 

I also check the complete roster of Airplane Pilot Officers of the USAAS commissioned prior to 12 November 1918 which is about 99% accurate but could not find the name of William W. Mathews listed in it and since he was trained by the British that does not surprise me.  Adding to that I also checked the rosters compiled by J. J. Smith of USAS pilots assigned to the 7th AIC Clermont-Ferrand, 2nd AIC Tours and 3rd AIC Issoudon with no luck.

 

With regard to the uniform and the wings.  The wings appear to have been made in England but is one of the crudest looking pilot wings attributed to a WW1 American aviator I've ever seen; however, as ugly as it might appear to me - and if the uniform came directly from the grandson, I'm reasonable certain it could actually be a good one but can't remember exactly where I saw one similar to it before.  There are still a number of files to sift through here. 

 

Since there is more research to be done as time allows maybe Terry Morris, Russ Wilson or Patrick Frost can also help. 

 

Kind regards,

 

Cliff

Attached Images

  • post wings.jpg

Edited by CliffP, 24 January 2014 - 09:03 AM.


#190 baker502

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 10:52 AM

Cliff,
That wing is certainly a wild one off piece that definitely has British influence. With the amount of detail in the wing feathering I would lean this might be good. Not as pretty as a bullion piece but if it was rendered in bullion it would be spectacular. Just my thoughts.Paul

#191 njaviators

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 11:07 AM

Cliff (et al) -

 

I'm certain he was with the 7th AIC- Gorrell has him listed there at the end of the war. Not sure how long he was there or if it was just a stop off assignment while awaiting assignment elswhere, but definately listed on the roster at end of war.  

 

The PRO records in Kew where no help with service assignments save his training so it took us a while to determine if he was in 18 Squadron or not.  JJ probably missed him since he is not listed in the Gorrell list of USAS officers with the British.  Not sure where Sloan managed to find him, but he listed him with 18 as you pointed out.   Sloans' book in wonderful, but I have found so many anomolies I take just about everything with a grain of salt now.    

 

We've alos posted for help on the Aerodrome and hope one of the Brit specialists will have an 18 Squadron roster to clarify this.   In any case, if he was with 18, he certainly flew DH-4's.

 

Attached is the 7th AIC (partial) roster from Gorrell.  

 

Lastly, the family sent me adiffrent photo of him in a different tunic top and while the current badge may not be very attractive compared to the bullion varieties, the English made badge in the other photo is very nice indeed.  

 

http://http://s334.photobucket.com/user/njaviators/media/Gorrell7thAICPage254.jpg.html

 

Thanks again to all for the assist. I'm hoping we'll be able to piece together his service for the family and I know the people reading this thread are just the one's to give it a go.

 

Mike


Edited by njaviators, 24 January 2014 - 11:07 AM.


#192 CliffP

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 12:45 PM

Cliff (et al) -.    

 

We've alos posted for help on the Aerodrome and hope one of the Brit specialists will have an 18 Squadron roster to clarify this.  

 

Mike

 

Mike,

 

William W. Mathews attended RFC ground school at Oxford, England in 1917 and graduated on April 18, 1918 so you might want to give your Aerodrome colleagues in England that information too.

 

Cliff

 



#193 cdking

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:05 PM

 

Hello Charles,

 

No big secret, in the book "Wings of Honor - American Airmen in World War I" by James J. Smith, Jr. (Schiffer Publishing Ltd.), on page 227 it lists a William W. Mathews as being a USAS officer trained by the RFC/RAF who was assigned to No. 18 Squadron RFC as of July 1918. . . but that is all.

 

I also check the complete roster of Airplane Pilot Officers of the USAAS commissioned prior to 12 November 1918 which is about 99% accurate but could not find the name of William W. Mathews listed in it and since he was trained by the British that does not surprise me.  Adding to that I also checked the rosters compiled by J. J. Smith of USAS pilots assigned to the 7th AIC Clermont-Ferrand, 2nd AIC Tours and 3rd AIC Issoudon with no luck.

 

With regard to the uniform and the wings.  The wings appear to have been made in England but is one of the crudest looking pilot wings attributed to a WW1 American aviator I've ever seen; however, as ugly as it might appear to me - and if the uniform came directly from the grandson, I'm reasonable certain it could actually be a good one but can't remember exactly where I saw one similar to it before.  There are still a number of files to sift through here. 

 

Since there is more research to be done as time allows maybe Terry Morris, Russ Wilson or Patrick Frost can also help. 

 

Kind regards,

 

Cliff

 

Cliff,

 

Thank you so much for that. I will see if I can find a copy of the Wings of Honor book. Sounds fascinating.

 

Attached is the photo his grandson has of him (the one Mike has referred to). As you will note, the jacket and wings are different.

 

I really appreciate your information. It has been interesting trying to piece together this short span of his life from 1917 - 1919.

 

Charles

 

 

Attached Images

  • William_Wyman_Mathews_zpsa5c75a8c.jpg


#194 cdking

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:08 PM

Cliff (et al) -

 

I'm certain he was with the 7th AIC- Gorrell has him listed there at the end of the war. Not sure how long he was there or if it was just a stop off assignment while awaiting assignment elswhere, but definately listed on the roster at end of war.  

 

The PRO records in Kew where no help with service assignments save his training so it took us a while to determine if he was in 18 Squadron or not.  JJ probably missed him since he is not listed in the Gorrell list of USAS officers with the British.  Not sure where Sloan managed to find him, but he listed him with 18 as you pointed out.   Sloans' book in wonderful, but I have found so many anomolies I take just about everything with a grain of salt now.    

 

We've alos posted for help on the Aerodrome and hope one of the Brit specialists will have an 18 Squadron roster to clarify this.   In any case, if he was with 18, he certainly flew DH-4's.

 

Attached is the 7th AIC (partial) roster from Gorrell.  

 

Lastly, the family sent me adiffrent photo of him in a different tunic top and while the current badge may not be very attractive compared to the bullion varieties, the English made badge in the other photo is very nice indeed.  

 

http://<img src="htt...ICPage254.jpg">

 

Thanks again to all for the assist. I'm hoping we'll be able to piece together his service for the family and I know the people reading this thread are just the one's to give it a go.

 

Mike

 

Mike,

 

I have also found him on a list on page1319 (the counter at the top) of Gorrel'ls. He is listed under "Headquarters Detachment".

 

Additionally, there is a "Lt. Mathews" listed  on page 95 in the list marked "20th".

 

Regards,

Charles
 



#195 CliffP

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:52 PM


Additionally, there is a "Lt. Mathews" listed  on page 95 in the list marked "20th".

 

Regards,

Charles
 

 

Charles,

 

That would have been 1/Lt. Richard P. Mathews attached to the 20th Aero Squadron.  He was killed over enemy lines on 26 September 1918.

 

Cliff
 



#196 rustywings

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 10:47 PM

Hello Charles,

 

Here's the reference to Lt. William W. Mathews copied from "Wings Of Honor" by James Sloan, page #227, if you don't have access to a copy of the book.

 

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  • IMG_4790b_crop.jpg


#197 cdking

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 05:08 AM

rustywings,

 

Thank you! I will eventually find a copy of that book, but that it really neat to see.

 

Way back in your 2010 post, you mentioned purchasing a small group of things related to W.W. Mathews. Would there be anything else in that lot that gave reference to the aircraft he flew, where he was posted, etc.? I'd be really curious to see any pictures you might have of the other items.

 

Thanks again!



#198 CliffP

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 08:13 AM

Mystery Solved - And The Answer Was Under Our Nose All The Time!

 

Charles & Mike,

 

The answer to the mystery concerning the viability of the unusual looking cotton-thread embroidered English made USAS Pilot Wings used by 1/Lt William W. Mathews was under our nose all the time. . . thanks to Russ Wilson. 

 

When you first contacted me via PM about those English made wings I thought they looked familiar but could not remember where I'd seen a similar looking badge before.  Well, Russ owns a Certificate of Identification issued in 1918 to Lt. Mathews while in England with an attached photo of him wearing those very wings on his uniform. . . plus some addition information.

 

Just go back and look at page number 5 of this same thread, and check out Russ's entries #86, #87 & #88 made on June 11, 2010 to see for yourself. 

 

Mystery solved - those wings really were made in 1918!

 

Cliff  ;)

Attached Images

  • Jacket-Canvas-Copy.jpg

Edited by CliffP, 28 January 2014 - 08:31 AM.


#199 cdking

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 08:23 AM

Cliff:

 

Yes! That is what drew me to this forum. The internet is so amazing.

 

It would also be interesting to see if there is anything else in Russ's collection that could shed light in W.W. Mathews brief military career...where he was stationed, the aircraft he flew, etc.

 

We have his registration card and are awaiting scans of pages from his diaries in 1917 and 1919, but so far do not know a whole lot about my colleagues grandfather who passed away in 1974...just for years after his grandson was born.

 

Thank you again for the great information

 

 

Charles



#200 B-17Guy

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 11:09 AM

Cliff:

 

Yes! That is what drew me to this forum. The internet is so amazing.

 

It would also be interesting to see if there is anything else in Russ's collection that could shed light in W.W. Mathews brief military career...where he was stationed, the aircraft he flew, etc.

 

We have his registration card and are awaiting scans of pages from his diaries in 1917 and 1919, but so far do not know a whole lot about my colleagues grandfather who passed away in 1974...just for years after his grandson was born.

 

Thank you again for the great information

 

 

Charles

 

I believe that this is a great forum for learning and expanding our knowledge of wing badges as well.

Having said that, if it were not for great people like Cliff, Russ and many others that have a lifetime of knowledge on this subject and

giving their free time to help those seeking knowledge, this forum would be a big empty pit.

Thanks to those that helped solve this mystery and bring to light yet another variation of a WWI, biographical wing badge!

 

John

 




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