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COLT 1911A1


PA Chris
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Hello.

Got a couple of question about a Colt made 1911a1 that I was given a few years ago. The serial number is 728xxx, this I am told dates it to 1943. My questions are- would this have left the factory with wood or plastic grips? And the magazine has a half blued finish half way up. Would this make the magazine a WW1 magazine and incorrect for this pistol when it was made?

Sorry if the post make me appear very OCD!

Thanks, Chris.

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Actually, your pistol would have shipped in 1941 and should have a matching serial number on the slide under the firing pin stop plate. (Many are mismatched). It should be blue finish with RS (Robert Sears) inspection stamps. The two tone mag may be correct but it should have plastic grips.

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tarheeltim

Grips would have definitely been plastic. Yes, you have a WWI magazine. WWI gear was widely used during WWII, so this is not uncommon. However, the gun would likely not have come from Colt with this magazine.

 

On a separate note, I have a WWII Colt magazine (unmarked with pinned base plate) in very good condition. PM me if you're interested in it.

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Grips would have definitely been plastic. Yes, you have a WWI magazine. WWI gear was widely used during WWII, so this is not uncommon. However, the gun would likely not have come from Colt with this magazine.

 

On a separate note, I have a WWII Colt magazine (unmarked with pinned base plate) in very good condition. PM me if you're interested in it.

Not necessarily-- Colt produced type 4 magazines in two-tone (but without the lanyard ring) up until mid 1940, for both military and civilian production. I would think it very possible that one of these magazines could have shipped with a 1941-production Colt 1911-A1.

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Blacksmith

Let me respectfully correct a little misinformation above.

 

Two primary changes were made to the Colt 1911A1 in 1941, which I would consider a transition year.

 

First, they began standardization on the "Coltwood" fiber-impregnated plastic stocks (colloq.: grip panels). If you have GI walnut stocks on yours, they are correct, as they continued using existing walnut stocks until well after the serial number of your gun. If you do not have proper walnut GI grips, and want to put plastic on it, you will need specifically Coltwood stocks. Those are identified by larger reinforcing rings around the fastener holes on the front side, and crossed strengthening ribs on the reverse (with a mold number on the intersection). In summary, either GI walnut or Coltwood plastic grips are correct on your gun.

 

Second, they converted to a manganese phosphate finish ("Parkerization") this year as well, but not consistently until about 6,000 units after your gun. So, yours would have received a Type III black oxide finish, which some call "blue" or "brush blue".

 

Lastly, supplies of WWI two-tone magazines were used well into 1943. I personally wouldn't worry about the magazine, as long as it's a period-correct GI example. Once these sidearms got to unit-level armorers, they could have had any magazine in it.

 

Hopefully that helps.

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Well, as long as we're splitting hairs, they used Coltrock grips before they used Coltwood. The Coltrock grips didn't last long--they turned brittle quickly. I agree the magazine is likely correct. Also, in spite of Clawson's uncanny accuracy on almost everything else, he got it wrong on the transition from blue to parkerized finish. I've logged over 1,000 pistols shipped in the early 1940s and I'm pretty confident in saying the change to parkerizing happened between 733880 and 734121. Unlike other changes it may have been at an exact serial number, perhaps 734000.

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Blacksmith

Howdy. IMHO, splitting hairs is debating insignificant nuance, like the difference between teal and cyan. My desire was to make sure the OP understood wooden grips could also be correct, where he had been told they weren't. Also, not a competition in my view, so however many 1911s you've "logged" does not change fact. Nonetheless, humble apologies if I offended you.

 

Also, Coltrock stocks are all but immaterial by this SN, but yes, they existed. However, limited use, and phased out before wood stocks were.

 

Toodles.

 

Well, as long as we're splitting hairs, they used Coltrock grips before they used Coltwood. The Coltrock grips didn't last long--they turned brittle quickly. I agree the magazine is likely correct. Also, in spite of Clawson's uncanny accuracy on almost everything else, he got it wrong on the transition from blue to parkerized finish. I've logged over 1,000 pistols shipped in the early 1940s and I'm pretty confident in saying the change to parkerizing happened between 733880 and 734121. Unlike other changes it may have been at an exact serial number, perhaps 734000.

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No offense, not competing, just trying to share. If one is to collect these pistols having OCD is a good thing!

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Actually, your pistol would have shipped in 1941 and should have a matching serial number on the slide under the firing pin stop plate. (Many are mismatched). It should be blue finish with RS (Robert Sears) inspection stamps. The two tone mag may be correct but it should have plastic grips.

 

Many thanks!

Yes both numbers match, has a blued finish and is inspector marked "RS"

Thanks, Chris.

 

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Grips would have definitely been plastic. Yes, you have a WWI magazine. WWI gear was widely used during WWII, so this is not uncommon. However, the gun would likely not have come from Colt with this magazine.

 

On a separate note, I have a WWII Colt magazine (unmarked with pinned base plate) in very good condition. PM me if you're interested in it.

 

Thanks for the magazine offer. I am sure the plastic grips I have are postwar, marked 5564063 on the underside?

Chris.

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Not necessarily-- Colt produced type 4 magazines in two-tone (but without the lanyard ring) up until mid 1940, for both military and civilian production. I would think it very possible that one of these magazines could have shipped with a 1941-production Colt 1911-A1.

 

Hello.

The magazine seems to be un-marked, but without the lanyard ring, but I guess the magazine seems to be no real biggie.

Thanks, Chris.

 

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No offense, not competing, just trying to share. If one is to collect these pistols having OCD is a good thing!

 

But OCD can get so expensive! Many thanks for all the replies!

Chris.

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everforward

Here is my blued March 1941 A1, 726xxx....IMHO as well it really was a transition year. This pistol has Coltrock grips, small rings and hollow backs (no reinforcement ribs)...pretty sure they only used these grips for about 6 months.

 

As for the magazine, many of these had an all-blued magazine with a pinned base, and a non-shiny bottom marked 'COLT 45 AUTO' as this one is marked; there are similar ones out there but not correct for this pistol...some may have come with two-tone mags but it's hard to say....the earlier the better for that.

 

post-8237-0-49609900-1499621927_thumb.jpg

 

post-8237-0-06185700-1499621955_thumb.jpg

 

post-8237-0-64739100-1499621996_thumb.jpg

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Blacksmith

Hi Chris, you are correct. That mold number would make them Korean War GI replacements.

 

So... Do we get to see pics of this little sweetheart? :)

 

 

Thanks for the magazine offer. I am sure the plastic grips I have are postwar, marked 5564063 on the underside?

Chris.

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Here is my blued March 1941 A1, 726xxx....IMHO as well it really was a transition year. This pistol has Coltrock grips, small rings and hollow backs (no reinforcement ribs)...pretty sure they only used these grips for about 6 months.

 

As for the magazine, many of these had an all-blued magazine with a pinned base, and a non-shiny bottom marked 'COLT 45 AUTO' as this one is marked; there are similar ones out there but not correct for this pistol...some may have come with two-tone mags but it's hard to say....the earlier the better for that.

 

attachicon.gifFullSizeRender.jpg

 

attachicon.gif4CDA7CC9-FDFD-41D7-B45F-3BACF2A301B3.JPG

 

attachicon.gif4B43F06F-3CB9-4132-A5F5-3A511684D52B.JPG

 

I have her twin!

Chris.

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Hi Chris, you are correct. That mold number would make them Korean War GI replacements.

 

So... Do we get to see pics of this little sweetheart? :)

 

 

Thanks for the confirmation. Trying with a pic.

Chris.

 

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Ok, see if this works. Sorry in advance for my picture quality! Here she is wearing some wood grips.

Chris.

post-1750-0-86590900-1499641117_thumb.jpg

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Blacksmith

Gadzooks, that is a righteous example. Granted, can't see the barrel markings, but what is visible - including small parts - is right. Nice short wide-spur hammer, correct milled trigger, etc. As discussed, only grips are wrong - which is the easiest to fix. Congrats on an honest RS Colt, and thank you for sharing.

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They should be thick rings with crossed reinforcing ribs.

 

I'm agreeing with the hollow back thin ring if plastic grips are used.

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Disagree.

There were hollow back thin ring, then hollow back thick ring, and after that the ribbed.

my #787780 would probably have been issued with hollow backed thin ring.

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everforward

Collector is right...no blued 1911A1 would have been made with thick-ring grips...they were all too early in production....

 

I used to own Colt # 747529 which was a mint parkerized pistol (November 1941) and it had thin-ring grips.

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