JeeBee37 Posted October 9, 2013 Share #301 Posted October 9, 2013 Thanks, but that doesn't help, sorry: The VFM-122 or VFM-213 "patches designs" have nothing in common with what looks to be a bulldog... That design may have been a personal emblem. Will keep searching... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted October 10, 2013 Share #302 Posted October 10, 2013 This may be the 1st abbreviated insignia for vmf-112, before they had the aussie/american embroidered wolf pack patches. Unfortunately, i am in Nebraska trout fishing and on my umpteenth drink (that is what you do when you are not fishing) and have no resources to pull for confirmation. It was not uncommon to pull planes from one unit to another (with or without a pilot) and it may have been a 112 insignia, transferred and subsequently numbered 122. 122 had Donald Duck and Wolf on a whiskey bottle motif. I noticed GEORGE on the cowling, not sure what that stood for, pilots name? Wiil check next week when my library is at my finger tip. Nice photo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeeBee37 Posted October 10, 2013 Share #303 Posted October 10, 2013 Thanks for your answer and help. Jim "Corsair expert" Sullivan just sent me some more info: << ... the plane belonged to VMF-213 at the time that photo was taken. The location was identified as Munda. No date was given nor the pilot(? identified. The emblem itself does not appear in any official emblem history that I can locate so it may just be some original art created for that plane but the VMF-122 wording is quite clear.Based on USMC squadron history from the excellent Robert Sherrod book, History of Marine Corps Aviation in World War ll, VMF-213 and VMF-122 both served on Munda. VMF-213 was there from 11SEP43 to 9DEC43. VMF-122 was on Munda in June and July, 1943. Drawing on that data, one possible explaination is that VMF-122 left that #82 F4U-1 at Munda when they departed in July 1943. When VMF-213 arrived on Munda in September 1943, they 'absorbed' that Corsair into use for their squadron and at the time of the photo, had not removed the VMF-122 fuselage emblem. That seems like a plausible possibility to me but as I stated earlier, we're dealing in speculation.>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted October 10, 2013 Share #304 Posted October 10, 2013 Did you check Millstein's book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeeBee37 Posted October 10, 2013 Share #305 Posted October 10, 2013 No, I didn't had an opportunity to have a look at it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted October 14, 2013 Share #306 Posted October 14, 2013 This insignia is highly consistent with the vmf -112 design proposed during the 1st combat tour on Guadalcanal, prior to their designation as the "Wolfpack". Ref: Millstein's, p20 & Marine Corps Historical Foundation Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeeBee37 Posted October 14, 2013 Share #307 Posted October 14, 2013 Merci, JP !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted December 10, 2013 Share #308 Posted December 10, 2013 Just for reference, 2 sizes of MAG-25 patch, both Australian made, discussed in separate post under Marine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Kibler Posted August 8, 2014 Share #309 Posted August 8, 2014 Today I met with Glenn Bower's family (VMF-214 Pilot). They gave me this. I've done some looking up and it appears to be an early VMO-251 Pocket Patch. After Boyington was shot down - I believe this is where Bowers was assigned. I didn't see any like it in the thread and thought I'd add it. Some wonderful things posted here. Tom Kibler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Kibler Posted August 8, 2014 Share #310 Posted August 8, 2014 The reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
servcon Posted August 28, 2014 Share #311 Posted August 28, 2014 VMB-4323 decal on leather. 1945 vintage. R.C. Burns was a turret gunner/mech with 433. Any idea on value and where to offer for sale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLeo Posted April 27, 2016 Share #312 Posted April 27, 2016 VMF-221 recently on ebay.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLeo Posted April 27, 2016 Share #313 Posted April 27, 2016 VMSB-231, later VMTB-231 I recently picked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walika Posted March 9, 2017 Share #314 Posted March 9, 2017 vmf 222 DECAL: Here is another WWII Decal featrues of a first design. In Millsteins's book, there is a similar design discussed representing an Australian embroidered on wool patch (and I do wish I had that one ). A decal is not mentioned by Millstein. Having this unused decal in hand would suggest a "Decal on Leatherette" variation. As usual, any comments or photos on any vmf 222 variations greatly welcomed. Regards, jpstout vmf222de...55_00obv.jpg Pat, Here are the three VMF-222 varieties in my collection . . . the decal, left, had been cut to shape and mounted on a piece of leather. Australian embroidered on right. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walika Posted March 9, 2017 Share #315 Posted March 9, 2017 VMSB/SMTB 454 DECAL: As a follow up to my previous post, I thought I would share this WWII Decal for the VMSB 454. There is a listing in Millstein's "USMC Aviation Unit Insignia 1941-1946" book for a 2nd issue silk screened on leatherette, but I have not seen it. It is quite possible that this is actually a Decal on Leatherette using the decal shown. If you have any further information or patch variations for the 454, please comment! Regards, jpstout vmsb454d...02_50obv.jpg Here are the two VMSB-454 variations in my collection, embroidered on wool and silk-screened leatherette. Regards to all, Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walika Posted March 9, 2017 Share #316 Posted March 9, 2017 VMF 121 Patch 1st Issue Australian Embroidered on Wool: Here is patch that came up on Ebay and listing ended because item was no longer for sale. I fortunately retrieved some photos and what you have is a rare 1st issued VMF 121 patch, Australian made with a twist. Purportedly only made for flight personnel, the only example I have seen (reference Millstein's book) had "V-M-F" on the bottom. This patch instead has the later "VMF 121" at the bottom, usually seen on the US embroidered patches. What is cool here is that you can see the original outline of some of the insignia markings traced on the wool prior to embroidering and under the VMF 121 there is a faint V M F. The reverse side is classic Australian embroidered. Simply Awesome! The color of the wool is a chocolate; Millstein's photo is off colored and not true to the chocolate it should be. In these photos, the patch looks somewhat wide, but I have seen that before and usually a photography issue. There have to be more of these out there. Post 'em if you got them... vmf121Au...y___Copy.jpg Pat, Responding to post #200 and yours, for comparison are the two VMF-121's in my collection. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walika Posted March 9, 2017 Share #317 Posted March 9, 2017 VMF - 122 Wolf On Whiskey Bottle: The kicker here is that this patch is Australian embroidered on wool; it is not mentioned in Millstein's reference book. However, it is distinctly different from the American embroidered on wool. This one is on a jacket and has a name, but is still being researched; there is a question of whether it is original to the jacket, but that should be answered when certain information is found on the name. The patch, however, is genuine and again proves that there is more to discover about the history of USMC aviation squadron patches...regards, jpstout Reference post #206 for First Design VMF-122 patch. Vmf_122_...et_m_001.jpg There are differences in the design and colors as well. Here are VMF-122 types 2 and 3 from my collection. . . .Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walika Posted March 9, 2017 Share #318 Posted March 9, 2017 VMF-122, type 1. Aussie embroidered on wool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walika Posted March 9, 2017 Share #319 Posted March 9, 2017 VMF-123, types 1 and 2. Aussie embroidered, left, is white base wool over which black wool is sewn. Emblem is embroidered on top of the black. Type 2, American, is embroidered on black wool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walika Posted March 12, 2017 Share #320 Posted March 12, 2017 VMF-214, types 1-4. Type 1 - "Swashbucklers". Australian embroidered on wool. About 6" high. Made August, 1943. Below are what I refer to as VMF-214, types 2-4; T-2 above T-3 (right) and T-4 (left). Type 2 - Australian embroidered on wool. This is the exact patch pictured in Millstein. Note that it is smaller than subsequent issues, only 4 3/4" tall x 3 3/4" wide at top. 12 stars. Made late, 1943. [Millstein refers to this as "First issue" Blacksheep.] Note difference from subsequent issues in the treatment of wing guns. Type 3 - American embroidered on wool. 5 3/4 x 4 3/4". 12 stars, no "214". [Millstein refers to this as "Second Issue" Blacksheep.] Type 4 - American embroidered on wool. 6 1/4" x 5". Note slight variation in design. 11 stars, with "214". The star below sheep's head is not present. I do not know the significance of this design change, or whether it might be post-war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUBUSMC Posted March 14, 2017 Share #321 Posted March 14, 2017 I own a type 2 and it is not Australian made, but US embroidered on wool. In Millsteins book it is referred to as the patch worn on the Franklin. Type 3 is more commonly seen on flight jackets worn by third tour pilots prior to the squadron being disbanded. I have always been told that type 4 was post war as they dropped one star and the sheep is much closer to the sheep worn on the fully embroidered patch made during Korea. (Post #16 this thread) There are several posts on the forum that display the blacksheep patch that was originally made in Australia for the squadrons first tour as blacksheep. Millstein does not have an example of this first issue patch in his book. Semper Fi - Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walika Posted March 15, 2017 Share #322 Posted March 15, 2017 I own a type 2 and it is not Australian made, but US embroidered on wool. In Millsteins book it is referred to as the patch worn on the Franklin. Type 3 is more commonly seen on flight jackets worn by third tour pilots prior to the squadron being disbanded. I have always been told that type 4 was post war as they dropped one star and the sheep is much closer to the sheep worn on the fully embroidered patch made during Korea. (Post #16 this thread) There are several posts on the forum that display the blacksheep patch that was originally made in Australia for the squadrons first tour as blacksheep. Millstein does not have an example of this first issue patch in his book. Semper Fi - Jeff Thanks for your reply. It was useful as I dug further into VMF-214. Since the Forum is configured such that edits to my prior post are not possible I will supplement it below in the hope this might generate any additional information, correction or refinement. VMF-214 operated during WWII in three incarnations: the Swashbucklers in early 1943, Boyington's "Black Sheep" (Sep-January, 1944), and the carrier-based (USS Franklin) unit in 1944-45. The squadron was aboard on March 19, 1945, when a Japanese dive bomber hit the USS Franklin. 724 crewmen lost their lives on that day, one of the worst ship's losses of the war; some VMF-214 enlisted men were among them (but no pilots). Fortunately, we have the flight jacket of Frederick "Fred" Samuel Lorsch, who flew with the unit under Pappy Boyington, Sep-Dec, 1943, while based in the Solomons. The Museum of Flying has his original flight jacket which shows the 1st generation of the patch, which Millstein refers to as the "First issue Blacksheep", Australian wool. Below are images from the Internet of Lorsch's patch and jacket. Like me, you have a USS Franklin era patch, which I had referred to as "Type-2" above, but we see now was later in the series as it came out in late 1944 and apparently was U. S. made. So, a restatement of the sequence of issues might be: VMF-214 Type 1 - "Swashbucklers". Mid-1943. Solomons campaign. Type 2 (1st Blacksheep tour) - Australian embroidered on wool. Sep 1943-January 1944. Like the Lorsch patch. (I have seen subsequent reproductions/copies of this patch.) Type 3 - (2nd Blacksheep tour) - American embroidered on wool. 5 3/4 x 4 3/4". 12 stars, no "214". [Millstein refers to this as "Second Issue" Blacksheep.] Type 4 - (3rd Blacksheep) Carrier-based unit on board USS Franklin. This patch is pictured in Millstein. Note that it is smaller than other issues, only 4 3/4" tall x 3 3/4" wide at top. 12 stars. Made late, 1944. Type 5 - American embroidered on wool. 6 1/4" x 5". Note slight variation in design. 11 stars, with "214". The star below sheep's head is not present. Likely post-war. Thoughts? Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUBUSMC Posted March 15, 2017 Share #323 Posted March 15, 2017 Rick, awesome post, thanks for taking the time. Being a Marine Aviator and a young kid during the Baa Baa Black Sheep series, this has always been my favorite Marine squadron patch! Semper Fi - Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Lewis Posted March 15, 2017 Share #324 Posted March 15, 2017 One of the Franklin survivors, Lt. Ken Linder, lived in our area. VMF-214 was based at Santa Barbara on 1944. I scanned his photo album which includes pictures from their days training at Santa Barbara and the return home in 1945. The officers are wearing your "Type 3" patch. Here's a crop from the squadron photo (1944). Ken is in the center, front row. The modern one is Ken at the WW2 Memorial dedication at Santa Barbara airport - wearing his WW2 patch. He died in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walika Posted March 16, 2017 Share #325 Posted March 16, 2017 One of the Franklin survivors, Lt. Ken Linder, lived in our area. VMF-214 was based at Santa Barbara on 1944. I scanned his photo album which includes pictures from their days training at Santa Barbara and the return home in 1945. The officers are wearing your "Type 3" patch. Here's a crop from the squadron photo (1944). Ken is in the center, front row. The modern one is Ken at the WW2 Memorial dedication at Santa Barbara airport - wearing his WW2 patch. He died in 2012. Thanks for sharing, Adam. Your images are great! Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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