WW1 Medals of my Grandfather

[Newscotlander]

These medals shown were my grandfathers. I'm trying to find the unit he was in during WW1. Unfortunately, the National Personnel Records Center has been unable to find his service record. There was a fire in 1973 that destroyed many records. My question is can the unit he was in be determined by the campaign bars on the Victory Medal and knowing he received the Croix de guerre?

[swabbie]

Ypres-Lys, Meuse-Argonne and Defensive Sector match with the 37th Division. Oise-Aisne does not. For that clasp, the 28th, 32nd and the 77th were eligible. He may have been transferred from one of these divisions to another, may have been in the ambulance corps, motor transport or some of the other mobile units. The CdG may be of some help narrowing these down. Some on the Forum will have that information.

[Bearmon]

From a long ago post:http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/227596-wwi-victory-medal-question/?hl=%2Bvictory+%2Bmedal+%2Bclasps&do=findComment&comment=1805705

Not sure where the defense sector comes in but it looks like a match for the 28th 53rd arty.

 

 

28th Division (Most of Division - exception follows)
Champagne-Marne
Aisne-Marne
Oise-Aisne
Meuse-Argonne

28th Division, 53rd Artillery Brigade
Add - Ypres-Lys
Ineligible for Champagne-Marne
Ineligible for Aisne-Marne

[lettow]

Where was he from? That may help narrow it down or there may be state records that can orovide additional information.

[Newscotlander]

Where was he from? That may help narrow it down or there may be state records that can orovide additional information.

 

Southern Rensselaer County, New York or Northern Columbia County, New York. They're adjacent to each other and the family appears to have moved several times.

 

My father tells me that he told him that he was gassed in the war. I also have two cards that show he was a member of the Disabled American Veterans of the World War, Albany, NY Chapter.

 

One other tidbit of information is a Veterans Affairs BIRLS file showing dates 16 Sep 1920 and 3 Apr 1921. I believe that was time spent in the VA hospital. The VA did not have anymore information.

[12A54]

You might want to try using a researcher at NPRC. Geoff at Golden Arrow is a GREAT resource. http://www.goldenarrowresearch.com/

 

I was told the same thing about my grandfather's records, but many WWI files weren't affected. Geoff found and sent me two complete files for my grandfather - one enlisted and one officer.

 

By the way, the bronze palm on his CdG indicates that he was cited (for valor) at army level, so that is a fairly high degree of the decoration.

[BEAST]

WWI veterans were entitled to a bonus for their service. To get the bonus, they had to apply and provide documentation. Usually this was done at the county recorder's office. I would try the offices for both counties first. Then I would check with the New York State Archives as the information may have been stored there.

You can also try Ancestry, they have abstracts of the service of NY veteran records.


New York, Abstracts of World War I Military Service, 1917-1919

New York sent more soldiers to fight in World War I than any other state in the Union. In fact, New Yorkers represented more than 10 percent of U.S. troops. This collection includes cards listing details abstracted from federal military service records for Army officers, enlisted men, sailors, Marines, and nurses who enlisted or were drafted in New York. The majority of the records begin in 1914 and continue through 1919.

Because the service records for most World War I Army veterans were destroyed in a 1973 fire at the National Personnel Records Center of the National Archives, this collection is a particularly important resource.

[12A54]

He may have qualified for a Silver Star (most who received the CdG were also cited in US orders) as well as a Purple Heart (given the DAV medal which indicates he may have been wounded) once those were instituted. If wounded, his discharge pin would have been silver - if you have other items from his service.

[MAW]

The CdG may have been a personal award....it may have been a random award....or it could be a souvenir. No way to tell without doing the research.

 

As I have mentioned before...I have a unit history that describes them getting orders to give out a pre-set number of CdGs at one point....so they somewhat randomly gave them out as prescribed. There is a cartoon drawing with it, and the caption "1 in 3 gets a C-d-G!"

 

As mentioned...the county recorder would be the first and best choice....

[Bruce Linz]

What is his name? That might help in finding information for you.

[Johnnymac]

He was from 53d Field Artillery Brigade:
107th Field Artillery Regiment (75mm)
108th Field Artillery Regiment (155mm)
109th Field Artillery Regiment (75mm)
103d Trench Mortar Battery

 

28^TH Division – these clasps were awarded to most of the unit.

CHAMPAGNE-MARNE

AISNE-MARNE

OISE-AISNE

MEUSE-ARGONNE

DEFENSIVE SECTOR

53^RD Field Artillery Brigade, the 103^RD Trench Mortar Battery – ineligible for CHAMPAGNE-MARNE and AISNE-MARNE, add YPRES-LYS.

103^RD Ammunition Train - ineligible for CHAMPAGNE-MARNE and AISNE-MARNE.

June 7, 1919, France, A.E.F., General Headquarters, General Pershing - Pershing sent a cablegram to the War Department requesting that eligibility for the thirteen major battle clasps be defined. After the posting and reading of the returned cablegram from the War Department to his commanders, the internal pressure became great for listing other battles. Officers and commanders had pleaded their cases of how they each had fought, while occupying various sectors in many different engagements, during this horrific war.

 

General Pershing understood the arguments of each of his unit commanders, and he wrote to the War Department on their behalf:

It is our duty to recognize those individuals and organizations, many of whom suffered heavy casualties and who, under the circumstances, merit a special recognition, [but] would be deprived of the right to wear a battle clasp if they were only awarded to personnel engaged in one of the limited thirteen (13) named major operations.

 

Secretary of War, Newton D. Baker replied, "The following premise that I have adopted is that the entire War was in reality a continuous battle. The effect of this premise is that all soldiers occupying a sector, whether active or quiet are entitled as a participant in battle under Par. 244." With this, Pershing's request was granted, and the Defensive Sector clasp was added as the fourteenth (14) battle clasp.

 

This Defensive Sector clasp would represent all the night patrols in no-man's land, facing the daily artillery and machine gun fire, and the extremely active enemy snipers. It was also for the Balloonists and the Signal Corps Air Service who were under fire from both air and ground, as well as the men who dodged enemy fire to truck supplies and ammo to the front or to get food to the troops in the trenches. Hollywood has often made it look so easy, but there was no cease fire, as is sometimes seen in the movies, as men dashed out from covered positions to help a fallen comrade. For all these unknown and forgotten heroes, the Defensive

Sector Battle clasp made an emphatic statement to the world that these soldiers and the lost souls fought an important battle as well.

 

From my book only sold at Amazon.com

 

 

 

 

[Newscotlander]

Thanks for all the replies. His name is Joseph M. Albright.

 

I am a member of Ancestry.com and could not find anything about his military record except the VA BIRLS file.

 

I will try the County files and/or New York State Archives.

[Newscotlander]

There is some thought that the medals were not my grandfather's. Here are two Disabled American Veteran membership cards. I don't know what efforts are made by that association to verify a person was, in fact, a disabled veteran.

[12A54]

There is some thought that the medals were not my grandfather's. Here are two Disabled American Veteran membership cards. I don't know what efforts are made by that association to verify a person was, in fact, a disabled veteran.

What makes you think that? You have medals that include a DAV medal and his DAV membership cards. Wouldn't the assumption be that they are his? And why don't you believe he was qualified to be a member of DAV?

[flyboy53]

Never assume that an individual did not qualify for full membership in something like the DAV. It might be worth a check with the DAV to see if there is still a record related to his membership given his status "in good standing."

 

I would rule out the 28th Infantry Division. The 28th was a federalized Pennsylvania Army National Guard division during WW I. My great-uncle served in that unit and also was gassed.

 

Any chance that your grandfather was a National Guardsman called to active duty? If so, you might want to check with the NYS Military Museum and Research Center to see if his name shows up on a unit roster.

 

Another good source would be the Columbia County Historian.

[Newscotlander]

My brother passed on some more information on my Grandfather. Here is a letter from the VA. Is the C number "C-616 241" his service number? I was going to see if the Golden Arrow research could find anything for him and they ask for a service number.

[Bruce Linz]

That number is most likely a VA Case number.

[BEAST]

That number is most likely a VA Case number.

I agree with Bruce, that's a VA case number. The VA may still have some info on him. Contact the local regional office or the local DAV rep and they may be able to help you. The VA will most likely not have unit info, but they may release his medical information, which could tell you if he was wounded or not. Remember you don't have to be wounded to have been disabled. Good luck!

[flyboy53]

That would be a FOIL request at this stage for records that are probably in the National Archives.

 

Given the $80 a month in 1925, my guess would be that your grandfather was rated totally disabled. Disability ratings of that era started at about $7.50 a month for someone that was 10 percent disabled.

[Newscotlander]

I am resubmitting a request to the National Personnel Records Center with new information and an initial FOIL request to the Department of Veterans affairs. I made calls or visited the Albany, Rensselaer, and Columbia County Clerks offices. None had any Military records for my Grandfather on file.

[AustinO]

 

 

The first article was from Albany 1922, the second from Kingston 1918 - not sure if that one is him or not.

[Newscotlander]

Thank you. I have seen the first article but not the second. I'm not sure either, whether that is him or not.

 

I just put in a request for information from the Golden Arrow Research mentioned above. Let's see what that produces.

[fstop61]

Top>>>Any updates?

[Newscotlander]

I hired Golden Arrow Research to find out what they could on my Grandfather. This is what I got. "The entire file was lost in the fire. These auxiliary records stand in place of the service file to verify service" There were four files sent to me. I still can't verify that my Grandfather was in World War One. He was discharged on April 3, 1921. His service number is 6056528. This would suggest to me that he entered service after World War One because I read somewhere that all service numbers from the war were below 6 million.

 

I am satisfied with the work that Golden Arrow did. They produced more than the archives search.

[zsmith]

Did he have a wife by the name of Josephine?