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Help With AEF Infantry Division HQ Organization

Started by world war I nerd , Apr 20 2017 07:27 PM

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#1 world war I nerd

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:27 PM

Hello All,

 

I'm trying to track down a detailed list of the tables and organization for an AEF Infantry Division's Headquarters Detachment circa November 1918

 

I'm hoping to find a detailed breakdown of each unit and sub-unit within the HQ detachment of an AEF Infantry Division, as well as the number of personnel (officers and enlisted men) assigned to each individual section & sub-section.

 

For example: Did the HQ Detachment have a Signal Corps platoon or section?  If yes, was it made up of wireless, telephone, telegraph, pigeon or other squads? If so, how many officers & men were prescribed for each of particular squad or section?

 

I need the same information for every unit, i.e. staff, intelligence, supply, medical, Quartermaster (if different from supply), liaison, pioneer infantry ... etc, etc. attached to Division HQ

 

I know that the tables & organization for AEF divisions were revised several times between 1917 & 1918, and I'd prefer to have the statistics that were current in November of 1918. However, I'll take whatever I can get.

 

I have bits and pieces of the information that I need, but it's incomplete, and I really, really need the entire package. 

 

If anyone can help me out with scans of the relevant documents or links to online sources, I'd really appreciate the assistance.

 

Thanks to all for looking ... World War I Nerd



#2 rvandehoef

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:06 AM

World War I nerd,

 

Just to be sure: you are NOT looking for  "...Train Headquarters & MP" and/or "...Division, Headquarters Troop" information, am I right?

"Division Headquarters Detachment" is the exact unit you're looking to get a November 1918 table of organization of, correct?

I'm VERY curious to see of you manage (you very likely will though...) to find this, and finally solve this mystery to me. This has always been giving me a bit of a headache, especially since there seem to have been multiple "Headquarters" related Divisional units.

 

Rogier

 

Hello All,

 

I'm trying to track down a detailed list of the tables and organization for an AEF Infantry Division's Headquarters Detachment circa November 1918

 

I'm hoping to find a detailed breakdown of each unit and sub-unit within the HQ detachment of an AEF Infantry Division, as well as the number of personnel (officers and enlisted men) assigned to each individual section & sub-section.

 

For example: Did the HQ Detachment have a Signal Corps platoon or section?  If yes, was it made up of wireless, telephone, telegraph, pigeon or other squads? If so, how many officers & men were prescribed for each of particular squad or section?

 

I need the same information for every unit, i.e. staff, intelligence, supply, medical, Quartermaster (if different from supply), liaison, pioneer infantry ... etc, etc. attached to Division HQ

 

I know that the tables & organization for AEF divisions were revised several times between 1917 & 1918, and I'd prefer to have the statistics that were current in November of 1918. However, I'll take whatever I can get.

 

I have bits and pieces of the information that I need, but it's incomplete, and I really, really need the entire package. 

 

If anyone can help me out with scans of the relevant documents or links to online sources, I'd really appreciate the assistance.

 

Thanks to all for looking ... World War I Nerd


Edited by rvandehoef, 21 April 2017 - 01:06 AM.


#3 jagjetta

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:18 AM

Nerd and Rogier,

I, too, have been confused by the term...I have encountered uniforms attributed to "HQ Co." of infantry divisions that have various discs including Signal Corps, MP, etc.

 

The Table of Organization of 1917(Table 22) details the "Headquarters of a division" (infantry or Cavalry) as containing only 27 officers, 3 field clerks, and 123 enlisted men. These numbers represent 138 combatant, 12 medical, and the 3 clerks. 

 

That is only 153 men authorized for the Divisional headquarters. I suppose detaching a hundred or so men could constitute a "detachment". Looking at the TO, most of the enlisted men are drivers, cooks, horseshoers, buglers, etc. 

 

Nafziger's tables of organizations indicate that "Divisional Troops" included the MG Bn, Engineer Bn, Field Signal Bn. and the Headquarters Troop".  

 

MPs, Field hospital and ambulance companies were all assigned to the Divisional Train.

 

Don't know if this helps.  In what context have you encountered the term "Headquarters Detachment?"

 

John



#4 world war I nerd

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:44 PM

John & Rogier,

 

Like Winston Churchil once said, but in another context ... "It's a riddle wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma."

 

Rogier, I am in fact, referring to Division HQ or Headquarters Detachment, which I've always assumed were both the same, but I do not know that to be an absolute fact.

 

I would also be interested in knowing the same information in regard to the HQ Troop & HQ Train & MP.

 

What also makes things confusing is that the total number of officers & men prescribed for a Division HQ are sometimes vastly different. This may be the results of the date of the Tables of Organization, which were modified and changed several timed during the course of the war.

 

The information that I have, which is from the ToO that was in effect in November of 1918 stated that a Division HQ was made up of 304 officers and enlisted men - nearly double the size of a Division HQ in 1917.

 

Another source that dates to May of 1918 called for a Division HQ to be comprised of 164 officers & enlisted men and for the HQ Troop to be made up of 109 officers & enlisted men, while the HQ Train & MP, at that time, was to have 337 officers and enlisted men.

 

Anyway back to my original question, I'd really like to find out what the duties of the 304 officers & enlisted men of Division HQ did ... orderlies - band - scouts - snipers - clerks - cooks - interpreters - etc.

 

 

John, I think I picked up the term, "HQ Detachment" from Doughboy diaries and journals ... It's something I've been using (possibly incorrectly) for a long time. It probably was never an official designation?



#5 solcarlus

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:43 PM

Bonjour.

Corrected to june 26, 1918

solcarlus.


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#6 world war I nerd

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 04:45 AM

Socarlus, merci beaucoup ... tres bon!

 

This particular document helped me a lot, but it created another unanswered question.

 

According to one of my references there was a total of 151 officers and enlisted men in each AEF Infantry Division that made up something called "Attached Services" in the Table of Organization for an Infantry Division circa November 1918. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that the Attached Services were under the command of Division HQ, or Brigade HQ, or possibly both.

 

I'm assuming that the Attached Services were comprised of various non-division specialized organizations that each Infantry Division needed in order to function properly or more efficiently. The following is a list of some of what I believe might be "Attached Services" organizations (that I know of) that operated with various AEF Infantry Divisions around the time of the St. Mihiel offensive. There are probably other Attached Services organizations that I'm not aware of, so If you know of any, please post what you know:

 

  • Clothing Bath & Laundry Units (Quartermaster Corps)
  • Railhead Detachments (Quartermaster Corps)
  • Postal Service Units (Quartermaster Corps)
  • Sales Commissary Detachments (Quartermaster Corps)
  • Salvage Units (Quartermaster Corps)
  • Mobile Ordnance Repair Shops (Ordnance Department)
  • Mobile Surgical Units (Medical Department)
  • Mobile Veterinary Units (Medical Department)
  • Motor Service Parks (Motor Transport Corps)
  • Motor Supply Companies (Motor Transport Corps)

Has anybody ever encountered a chart or Table of Organization that:

 

1.) Lists all of the different Attached Services organizations that operated with AEF Infantry Divisions? (In other words, were more service organizations than those I listed above?

2.) Details exactly which Attached Services were permanently posted to an AEF Infantry Division?


Edited by world war I nerd, 22 April 2017 - 04:56 AM.


#7 solcarlus

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 12:08 PM

  • Clothing Bath & Laundry Units (Quartermaster Corps)
  • Railhead Detachments (Quartermaster Corps)
  • Postal Service Units (Quartermaster Corps)
  • Sales Commissary Detachments (Quartermaster Corps)
  • Salvage Units (Quartermaster Corps)
  • Mobile Ordnance Repair Shops (Ordnance Department)
  • Mobile Surgical Units (Medical Department)
  • Mobile Veterinary Units (Medical Department)
  • Motor Service Parks (Motor Transport Corps)
  • Motor Supply Companies (Motor Transport Corps)


I think that for units cited, these are the

personnel of the different detachments that have the mission of certain tasks. The QMC, for example can take care of the "salvage" the ordnance department are in charge of the "shop repairs".

On the other hand, we can meet these units at the level of the body, see integral parts of the S.O.S.

En français ;-)
Je pense que pour les unités citées, ce sont les
personnels des différents détachements qui ont la mission de certaines tâches.
Le QMC, par exemple peut se charger du "salvage" L'ordnance department se
charge du "repairs shop".
Par contre, nous pouvons rencontrer ces unités au niveau du corps, voir parties intégrantes du S.O.S.


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