USMC Navy Cross/DSC Uniform Restoration

[uniformcollector]

I just bought a uniform of Brigadier General John Groff who received the Navy Cross and Distinguished Service Cross for his heroism at the Battle of Belleau Wood. Unfortunately, the uniform is completely stripped and I'm looking to restore it to how the General would have worn it during the second world war.

 

I'm far from an expert on Marine Corps uniforms and was hoping some of the knowledgable people here on the forum could help me figure out what I need. This is where I am so far:

 

- Brigadier General's stars (what type?)

- EGA's (what type?)

- Ribbon bar with 1/2 inch ribbons (see second post)

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[uniformcollector]

Here's a rendering I put together of what ribbons I believe he was entitled to. Does anyone know if there is a place I can get all of the 1/2 inch ribbons I need?

 

[CNY Militaria]

The other auctions from this seller included all the parts from this officer needed to restore the uniform to its original configuration. He sold all of the pieces individually and you should be able to see them in his completed items. Here is the message he sent me in reply to my question about the items being from the same uniform (yours):

 

"Hello, and thanks for the interest. Yes, these ribbons were removed from Groff's uniform, along with the EGAs and fourragere, and they are consistent with his service (NC, DSC, SS, PH). However, since the clutches are clearly post-WWII, and Groff's service record doesn't have a photo of him wearing them, I felt it best to list the items separately"

[CNY Militaria]

The same buyer won the ribbons, EGA's, and fourragere. The stars were unsold.

[Dave]

I agree with the seller that those ribbons look pretty much new, but they are what you would want to have on there. Isn't there a company that makes 1/2" ribbon bars for reenactors and such? I'd have them duplicate the ones from the auction and you should be spot-on.

[uniformcollector]

Thank you gentlemen for the help! I did consider buying the insignia to put back on the uniform, but since it was auctioned before the uniform, I didn't want to run the risk of ending up with replacement insignia and no uniform. I managed to find someone that will put together original 1/2 inch ribbons, so that will look pretty nice, but might set me back a little.

 

I assume the EGA's should be pretty easy to find. I could probably just search WWII USMC officer EGA and get a bunch of results. I haven't been able to find WWII USMC BG stars. Are these rarer then the Army variant?

 

Thanks again!

[Dave]

I assume the EGA's should be pretty easy to find. I could probably just search WWII USMC officer EGA and get a bunch of results. I haven't been able to find WWII USMC BG stars. Are these rarer then the Army variant?

 

 

 

No, you should be fine with any BG stars. There was no difference between the services when it came to stars (some people might claim there was, but I know of no regulation that specifies any differences).

[uniformcollector]

That's great to know! Thanks.

[Kurt Barickman]

Start looking on Ebay for the 1/2 plastic Wolf Brown ones. It will take some time but you will find them.

 

Congrats,

 

Kurt

[EGA-DOG]

Through period photos I've seen more officer's wearing Viking Qwik-set. I think they look better than the Wolf Browns also.

[RustyCanteen]

If you are going for a 1945 restoration his promotion was a retirement advancement I believe. FWIW, I think this one was posted before: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/154111-brigadier-general-rank-usmc/

[uniformcollector]

Thank you to everyone for the help! I believe Groff was promoted to Brigadier General just prior to his retirement, so I think I'll restore the uniform to that. I managed to get the EGA's, fourragere and 1/2 inch ribbons. All I need now are the two stars. Does anyone have a set or know where I might be able to find one?

[CNY Militaria]

Here is a photo of Gen. Groff.

[uniformcollector]

Thank you for the photo Justin. It looks like he is missing some awards he was entitled to such as the Bronze Star, WWII Victory Medal, etc.

[CNY Militaria]

I didn't realize he earned a BSM...his bio states a Silver Star as well for WWI, but he served stateside in WWII so no opportunity for a BSM. Unless I am missing something?

[EGA-DOG]

Is the uniform dated? If so, I would restore it to that time period.

[uniformcollector]

The uniform is dated January, 1945. Here is Groff's recommendation for the Bronze Star. Since it is a recommendation, I guess there is a chance he did not receive it, but on the restored ribbon bar originally on the uniform, it had a Bronze Star so I think I will add one.

[Dave]

The uniform is dated January, 1945. Here is Groff's recommendation for the Bronze Star. Since it is a recommendation, I guess there is a chance he did not receive it, but on the restored ribbon bar originally on the uniform, it had a Bronze Star so I think I will add one.

Screen Shot 2017-04-09 at 4.48.14 PM.png

 

Any chance that could have been downgraded to his Navy Commendation?

[uniformcollector]

You're right! I just checked some of the archive records again and it was indeed downgraded. Other then that do you think the ribbons are accurate?

[Dave]

You're right! I just checked some of the archive records again and it was indeed downgraded. Other then that do you think the ribbons are accurate?

 

 

You're planning to hang onto this uniform and invest the money to restore it properly, I know. If I were in your shoes, I'd get at least some of his file from the NPRC...say, maybe at least his final official bio, listing his awards, just to confirm it all (especially the campaign stars and such...)

[Kurt Barickman]

For 1945, I would do Wolf Brown for sure as they are easier to assemble then Viking ones; IMHO.

 

Kurt

[CNY Militaria]

The seller of this uniform indicated that the replaced ribbon bar had a SS on it...no mention of a BSM (se his response above). Also, his bio reflects this BSM recommendation was downgraded to the Navy Commendation Ribbon.

 

EDIT: I see this has been addressed above while I was posting this!

[uniformcollector]

I'll definitely wait until I get the uniform and file in hand before I make any purchases for ribbons. A forum member on here has offered to put together original Viking ribbons for me with the attachments, so I think I will go that route.

 

As far as the Silver Star, Groff was awarded a Silver Star citation, which I believe is different then the actual medal (I may be wrong). I have a Spanish-American War/Indian War uniform to an individual who was awarded the citation and never wore the medal and it appears neither did Groff in his post retirement portrait.

[uniformcollector]

Here is the citation. It mentions a star on his victory ribbon? I know he warranted 5 bronze stars for battles, but the citation cites gallantry. Does anyone have any idea what this might mean?

 

"By direction of the President, under the provisions of the act of Congress approved July 9, 1918 (Bulletin Number 43, War Department, 1918), Gunnery Sergeant John Groff, United States Marine Corps, is cited by the Commanding General, SECOND Division, American Expeditionary Forces, for gallantry in action and a silver star may be placed upon the ribbon of the Victory Medals awarded him. Gunnery Sergeant Groff distinguished himself while serving with the 83d Company, Sixth Regiment (Marines), 2d Division, American Expeditionary Forces at Chateau-Thierry, France, 6 June - 10 July 1918."

[Dave]

I'll definitely wait until I get the uniform and file in hand before I make any purchases for ribbons. A forum member on here has offered to put together original Viking ribbons for me with the attachments, so I think I will go that route.

 

As far as the Silver Star, Groff was awarded a Silver Star citation, which I believe is different then the actual medal (I may be wrong). I have a Spanish-American War/Indian War uniform to an individual who was awarded the citation and never wore the medal and it appears neither did Groff in his post retirement portrait.

 

 

No, he would have been entitled to the actual SS medal if he received the citation during WW1. His choice to wear it, of course, but he was entitled to it. There are a couple of other awards missing from his medals, it seems, so that might have been a real mixed group that he wore as a veteran (note the DSC is the French style!)